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PeerTube, the “Decentralized YouTube”, succeeds in crowdfunding

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Re: PeerTube, the “Decentralized YouTube”, succeeds in crowdfunding

#81

Post by worble »

Endy wrote: post #48
willio58 wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Podcasts are, for the most part, decentralized and seem to be still booming in popularity. I don’t see why a decentralized video platform couldn’t work too.

Really? I don't agree here. I've never seen any that weren't being pushed to one of the major podcast apps - and thusly centralized. I mean, the whole term comes from the fact that it was originally downloadable to your iPod through iTunes. None of the podcasts I've ever found could really be considered decentralized - they might have a webpage somewhere, sure, but if they're not in Apple's iTunes/Podcast app, I'm no…

>but if they're not in Apple's iTunes/Podcast app, I'm not going to find them And I've never owned a single apple device in my life, or used any of their itunes software, and yet still manage to find plenty of postcasts to listen to.

Re: PeerTube, the “Decentralized YouTube”, succeeds in crowdfunding

#82

Post by jabbadabbadooba »

gwbas1c wrote: post #50
themagician wrote: post #2

What the people who want decentralized services don't realize is that the content creators want centralized services (whether they realize it or not). In the old days we needed YouTube because you needed a Flash encoder if you wanted to make video accessible on the web to everyone. Now anyone can host video on anything. You can throw even throw some comments on the bottom if you want. But what those who create want i…

I think you're on to something. > How many attempts at decentralized social networks have failed? All of them. When I've tried to build decentralized code, it's 10x harder. IMO, the real problem with creating a decentralized replacement for a centralized service is multi-fold: You have to really understand the use case that you're trying to replace, and the nuances that drive the general public to that particular ser…

I'd argue that the web is actually centralized but can host decentralized services.

Re: PeerTube, the “Decentralized YouTube”, succeeds in crowdfunding

#83

Post by jabbadabbadooba »

qop wrote: post #71
satsuma wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

how many of those have never seen real use/adoption above hobbyists/diehards, though? irc and sms is about it from that list. it was a drag getting people to drop skype for telegram, despite telegram being (in my opinion) more user friendly. getting them to go to something like gnusocial would be damn near impossible. decentralized youtube might be easier to get rolling, on the other hand. all it takes is sharing you…

People made this argument about cars when they were still riding horseback. Let's not defend the worse thing here.

It's like people pretend the internet has been around for ages and things just are unable to change anymore.

Re: PeerTube, the “Decentralized YouTube”, succeeds in crowdfunding

#84

Post by toasterlovin »

hansjorg wrote: post #69
Endy wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Really? I don't agree here. I've never seen any that weren't being pushed to one of the major podcast apps - and thusly centralized. I mean, the whole term comes from the fact that it was originally downloadable to your iPod through iTunes. None of the podcasts I've ever found could really be considered decentralized - they might have a webpage somewhere, sure, but if they're not in Apple's iTunes/Podcast app, I'm no…

Believe it or not, but people without iTunes are also listening to podcasts. I've yet to come across a podcast I wanted to listen to without an RSS feed available through a website. For discovery there are several good alternatives to iTunes, for example https://player.fm

> I've yet to come across a podcast I wanted to listen to without an RSS feed available through a website.

That's because podcasts on iTunes just point to an RSS feed hosted elsewhere. iTunes doesn't host the audio files; it's just a directory.

Re: PeerTube, the “Decentralized YouTube”, succeeds in crowdfunding

#85

Post by WJW »

ReverseCold wrote: post #40
themagician wrote: post #2

What the people who want decentralized services don't realize is that the content creators want centralized services (whether they realize it or not). In the old days we needed YouTube because you needed a Flash encoder if you wanted to make video accessible on the web to everyone. Now anyone can host video on anything. You can throw even throw some comments on the bottom if you want. But what those who create want i…

The biggest thing holding back p2p/"truly decentralized" networks (in my opinion) are NAT/Firewalls. You cannot reliably get past them on the inside without manual configuration. There's no way you can convince millions of people to try to port forward, and UPnP is very hit or miss. If that was solved, lightweight applications like 1:1 messaging could easily be fully peer to peer/decentralized/trustless.

That is definitely a thing hindering adoption, but if there was really a big demand for decentralization, they would have been gone already. There are many more things holding back decentralized networks like the difficulty in filtering spam without easy coordinated effort, fixing network wide search and efficient monetization of content for creators.

Re: PeerTube, the “Decentralized YouTube”, succeeds in crowdfunding

#86

Post by dragontamer »

iknowverylittle wrote: post #52
dragontamer wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm not sure that 'decentralized' in this case means decentralized in community. The idea of ActivityPub is to have a federated group of servers. Similar to XMPP and Email. So you can create an account as Alice@serverAlpha.com, while I can create an account as Bob@serverB.com. When I publish a video at serverB.com, it will notify serverAlpha.com that a new video was published, which eventually tells Alice to check…

Thank you! This is all new to me, so I don't know how it works. However, this does resolve my concern about 'instances'. It makes me excited and hopeful then that Peertube could become something pretty great.

> However, this does resolve my concern about 'instances'.

On a surface level, it should. But given what I've seen over the past 15 years, no... it shouldn't resolve those concerns.

Consider if Google / Youtube became PeerTube compatible with ActivityPub next year. But then, there are additional features that only exist on Youtube's implementation (spam monitoring, Twitter integration, Youtube integration, etc. etc.). Something that makes people prefer Youtube over other hosts.

Eventually, Youtube can cut out ActivityPub, after it captures the ActivityPub marketplace.

See XMPP and Google Hangouts if you want a historical example. Embrace, Extend, extinguish is the name of the technique, and it is quite effective at killing open standards.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embrace,_extend,_and_extinguis...

----------

So the general community does need to be aware of it, lest another XMPP-extinguish effect comes around from the big players.

Re: PeerTube, the “Decentralized YouTube”, succeeds in crowdfunding

#87

Post by mikec3010 »

tehduder9 wrote: post #72
wongarsu wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

youtube is great for building an audience, but not nessesarily good for keeping it. A lot of niches have great success with patreon, but great trouble with keeping their videos on youtube (and in some cases keeping them in their subscribers feeds even when they are not taken down). The issues range from youtube's automatic enforcement of content guidelines (which appears more or less random), their ever increasing st…

>youtube is great for building an audience, but not nessesarily good for keeping it. I wouldn't make that youtube's fault. People just grow out of content or like other content. And the overzealous community guidelines and copyright strikes are a result of hundreds of lawsuits against youtube by the movie industry, and a need to appeal to advertisers for their platform. Youtube barely makes any real income, just bare…

The hypocrisy will be hilarious when people start ripping yt vids and putting them on pt, given how yt was born off pirated content and hid behind "safe harbor" laws to build a browsable catalog. The first clip that came from yt will be met with scathing rebuke from Google's legal team.

Re: PeerTube, the “Decentralized YouTube”, succeeds in crowdfunding

#88

Post by toasterlovin »

lylecubed wrote: post #55
nerdponx wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What the people who want decentralized services don't realize is that the content creators want centralized services (whether they realize it or not). You need a centralized discovery service (this is where Tor, I2P, Freenet, IPFS, etc. all fail). Centralized content hosting is different.

Why couldn't you make the discovery service decentralized as well?

Because it's a two sided network. Users go to wherever the best content is (or can be found). Content creators go to where the users are. It's most efficient for both users and creators for there to be only one discovery service.

Re: PeerTube, the “Decentralized YouTube”, succeeds in crowdfunding

#89

Post by posting2fast »

tehduder9 wrote: post #72
wongarsu wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

youtube is great for building an audience, but not nessesarily good for keeping it. A lot of niches have great success with patreon, but great trouble with keeping their videos on youtube (and in some cases keeping them in their subscribers feeds even when they are not taken down). The issues range from youtube's automatic enforcement of content guidelines (which appears more or less random), their ever increasing st…

>youtube is great for building an audience, but not nessesarily good for keeping it. I wouldn't make that youtube's fault. People just grow out of content or like other content. And the overzealous community guidelines and copyright strikes are a result of hundreds of lawsuits against youtube by the movie industry, and a need to appeal to advertisers for their platform. Youtube barely makes any real income, just bare…

> I wouldn't make that youtube's fault. People just grow out of content or like other content.

YouTube constantly messes with the subscription feed.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XdkMrDmODtw

> People seriously seriously underestimate the amount time and tech that has gone into youtube.

No, we're perfectly aware. It's just a huge chunk of that time is used on actively bad tech, that does bad things. Not out of incompetence, but out of user and creator hostile decisions they make time and time again.

> Copyright system has to inspect billions of hours of video in a day, you can't expect people to do all of that.

Don't host more on your instance than you have the resources to check. If people want to upload a whole lot, they have to do it on their own instance, and be culpable for what they upload to it. What is so hard about it?

There are billions of people on this planet, each could say something any second that would land them in jail in multiple jurisdictions. No need to centralize all speech and check it centrally, is there?

> To have the enourmous CDN and advanced AI filtering algorithms that is better than youtube?

Hmmpf. They couldn't even really deal with ElsaGate, 99% of which consists of videos using the exact same music. Indeed, people found more manually, and then YouTube failed to act on the reports. They have a worse performance than many little hosters would have in aggregate, I'm pretty sure.

Re: PeerTube, the “Decentralized YouTube”, succeeds in crowdfunding

#90

Post by castlecrasher2 »

dragontamer wrote: post #15
themagician wrote: post #2

What the people who want decentralized services don't realize is that the content creators want centralized services (whether they realize it or not). In the old days we needed YouTube because you needed a Flash encoder if you wanted to make video accessible on the web to everyone. Now anyone can host video on anything. You can throw even throw some comments on the bottom if you want. But what those who create want i…

> What the people who want decentralized services don't realize is that the content creators want centralized services (whether they realize it or not). I agree. The current Youtube creators have built their models on advertisement, clicks, favorites, etc. etc. PeerTube will never be for them. There's simply no money in PeerTube right now. That's fine however. There's a large section of creators, such as Blender, Edu…

Yep this is what I look forward to. Fewer Minecraft videos and more educational series.
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