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Facebook AI Research Expands with New Academic Collaborations

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11–20 of 88 posts

Re: Facebook AI Research Expands with New Academic Collaborations

#11

I understand the call of money but I cannot help but feel very negatively towards academics doing this with facebook of all organisations. After recent events, they cannot pretend not to know the impact and damage their work may have here. Excusing yourself with "I am just a researcher, I don't have anything to do with how my work is used" is just not good enough any more. I would categorically reject any collaborati…

Honestly at this point it is also ethically "controverse" to work for facebook in any position.

Obviously, in my personal opinion and I can understand that a lot of people don't care about it

Re: Facebook AI Research Expands with New Academic Collaborations

#13

I understand the call of money but I cannot help but feel very negatively towards academics doing this with facebook of all organisations. After recent events, they cannot pretend not to know the impact and damage their work may have here. Excusing yourself with "I am just a researcher, I don't have anything to do with how my work is used" is just not good enough any more. I would categorically reject any collaborati…

FB and Google are the only ones pushing the industry forward. The huge amount of data and computing power is what brings these researchers, its not all about money. In the long run the scientific advancements from these companies is a much higher positive than the negatives they have in the present.

In the long run the scientific advancements from these companies is a much higher positive than the negatives they have in the present.

That’s really the main question, isn’t it?

Re: Facebook AI Research Expands with New Academic Collaborations

#14
post #5

QUIT USING FACEBOOK STUFF

Care to expand? Everybody in my vicinity uses messenger, no exception, it's the standard method of communication. It's like saying "quit using the Telco stuff!" 20 years ago.

In my area first everyone dropped messenger because some people had no accounts and moved instead to Whatsapp that guarantee that if you had a phone you could have easily an account in a matter of seconds (download and install) without having to create a full profile on some site you could not care less ( at this point of time in my old account no one is writing anymore in his home but instead using it just as a news aggregator).

Then everyone moved to Telegram because it allows you to share your account to others without giving them your personal number.

It is just a matter of time and everyone will move to the most simple system for the specified purpose

Re: Facebook AI Research Expands with New Academic Collaborations

#15

I understand the call of money but I cannot help but feel very negatively towards academics doing this with facebook of all organisations. After recent events, they cannot pretend not to know the impact and damage their work may have here. Excusing yourself with "I am just a researcher, I don't have anything to do with how my work is used" is just not good enough any more. I would categorically reject any collaborati…

FB and Google are the only ones pushing the industry forward. The huge amount of data and computing power is what brings these researchers, its not all about money. In the long run the scientific advancements from these companies is a much higher positive than the negatives they have in the present.

tell that to the royhinga who were betrayed by facebook and subsequently killed.

i'll be waiting for the scientific advancements to be useful to the public. so far they've increased rates of depression, anxiety, etc while enabling totalitarianism.

Re: Facebook AI Research Expands with New Academic Collaborations

#16

How is IP handled in this situation? Especially given the recent discussion [1] on HN about how the recently announced DeepMind Patent Portfolio could be a problem, how is it that state employees (Washington, California) are "co-employed" by an organization to do _exactly_ the research that their home universities work on ? Who owns the IP in this case? Are these sorts of agreements FOIA-able? [1] https://news.ycombi…

> how is it that state employees (Washington, California) are "co-employed" by an organization to do _exactly_ the research that their home universities work on They will work part-time for the university, and part-time for Facebook. I don't see why that's so shocking? Presumably the university only funds them part-time for part-time work, so it's not like they're not getting what they're paying for if that's what yo…

Most employer agreements have fairly draconian claims around IP. And I believe that many universities require their faculty to run consulting, etc. gigs through their legal teams, and the university gets a "right of first refusal" of sorts on the generated IP. Many academics get around this by claiming that they are doing research X at company (more applied, etc.) and research Y at the university (more theory, technically different projects under different grants). But with ML it seems like it would be harder. Regardless, I'd love to figure out if we can get these agreements through freedom of information act requests, to shed light on what state-employees are doing.

Re: Facebook AI Research Expands with New Academic Collaborations

#17
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Care to expand? Everybody in my vicinity uses messenger, no exception, it's the standard method of communication. It's like saying "quit using the Telco stuff!" 20 years ago.

In my area first everyone dropped messenger because some people had no accounts and moved instead to Whatsapp that guarantee that if you had a phone you could have easily an account in a matter of seconds (download and install) without having to create a full profile on some site you could not care less ( at this point of time in my old account no one is writing anymore in his home but instead using it just as a news…

I'm not denying that at all, we've moved on from telcos too.

But it isn't a "just drop it" situation. It's a "gracefully transition when the social dynamics are in your favor" situation.

Re: Facebook AI Research Expands with New Academic Collaborations

#18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

FB and Google are the only ones pushing the industry forward. The huge amount of data and computing power is what brings these researchers, its not all about money. In the long run the scientific advancements from these companies is a much higher positive than the negatives they have in the present.

Any researcher in this area worth their salt can easily get cloud credit grants and collaborations from Google, Microsoft, Amazon. I pose if you go to Facebook, it's very much about money.

[deleted]

Re: Facebook AI Research Expands with New Academic Collaborations

#19
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my area first everyone dropped messenger because some people had no accounts and moved instead to Whatsapp that guarantee that if you had a phone you could have easily an account in a matter of seconds (download and install) without having to create a full profile on some site you could not care less ( at this point of time in my old account no one is writing anymore in his home but instead using it just as a news…

I'm not denying that at all, we've moved on from telcos too. But it isn't a "just drop it" situation. It's a "gracefully transition when the social dynamics are in your favor" situation.

I agree with you on that

Re: Facebook AI Research Expands with New Academic Collaborations

#20
post #5

QUIT USING FACEBOOK STUFF

Care to expand? Everybody in my vicinity uses messenger, no exception, it's the standard method of communication. It's like saying "quit using the Telco stuff!" 20 years ago.

Yea, and there was a lot of controversy that went all the way up to the government and there was the attempt to break apart the tight centralization that had become Telcos. Obviously this is repeating itself.

Social systems are built by people and broken apart by people. People are telling you to stop using Facebook because they don't have anyone's best interests aligned with anything besides their own. So stop using Facebook unless they figure out how to prove differently. Trust takes time and when it's broken, it takes effort to regrow. Don't give them that power over you. That's the point of what a lot of people are saying. All of that stuff influences the ways we see all online communication. A breakdown in trust from one superpower affects perception of everything it is connected to. And some people like socializing online freely, without having to constantly police themselves for every statement uttered, because for some people, that's all we ever had for real and fluid and trusting social interaction and that's all we learned to feel comfortable with. Facebook changed that dynamic to an extreme.

So Facebook sucks, that's why we have that perspective. They are going to have to do more than AI research because it's still very obviously aligned with their own interests and not necessarily the interests of the people that use Facebook. They need to rethink stuff, or at least think about the perspective of folks that use Facebook without projecting their own insecurities onto the rest of the world. Do different things, think about what Facebook does that breaks relationships down instead of builds them, think about how to solve those problems. Because it does. It establishes social dynamics that are not useful for meaningful dialogue. They took advantage of that, which is an abuse of trust. All of this stuff matters in this political climate. It affects all of us.

Yes, you use a service, you become the product. That's what we've been led to accept. How about just not seeing people solely as means to an end (profit)? It's a balance. Capitalism matters to this country clearly, it matters to lots of people on Ycombinator, entrepreneurs, startups, small business, developers, etc. But it's still a balance. You don't want it to override everything you are and everything you do because then it controls you, instead of you have control over you. That would seem like a contradiction because the point of having financial security is to have your own control. But the world is much more complicated than the business of making money. This doesn't mean toss everything you've ever done in the garbage. Just means be mindful of the balance.

Facebook, for whatever reason it was built, was sold to a consumer public as a means for improving socialization. It is not doing that because it chose to not do that. It took an action that was orthogonal to the mutual trust established in the business dynamic. Takes time to repair that. AI is still too tightly coupled to predicting how people think.

Bottom line is, you have to ask yourself "Why do they want to do that?".

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