How the Car Keeps Americans Apart • Hacker News Board

Re: How the Car Keeps Americans Apart

#171

Post by yellowapple » Fri, Jul 20, 2018, 12:32 PM UTC

KozmoNau7 wrote: post #161

Arn_Thor wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're describing a chain of events that happened, but doesn't necessarily had to occur. Firstly, the mechanism you describe where people bid up housing near transit corridors also happens near highways and traffic corridors, though it is more dispersed. This effect can and has been mitigated by combining rail transit with buses or trams leading to rail stations. It is of course more effective in less suburbanized ar…

>"So much space is wasted on parking lots for vehicles that stand empty most of the day" Don't forget that these stretches of black asphalt act as giant heat accumulators, soaking up the sun during the day and keeping temperatures uncomfortably high after the sun goes down.

That can be fixed with some trees (or better yet: captalized upon with solar panels). Parking garages are another option for more space-efficient parking

Re: How the Car Keeps Americans Apart

#172

Post by mmirate » Fri, Jul 20, 2018, 12:43 PM UTC

shankr wrote: post #169

mmirate wrote: post #168

Sure, bicyxles are great and all - but I dare you to try even a half-mile commute via bicycle during the Florida summer if your job involves presenting yourself in a non-slobby manner.

You guys are spoiled. It doesn't even get in high 35 degree Celsius (95 degree Fahrenheit). I grew in a area where 35 was degree was the average temperature with lot of humidity, and we biked to our school. We didn't even have AC in most of the places. At least in USA, AC is so much more common. Also biking early in the morning is different from doing it during the afternoon. I suppose most of the people go to the wo…

Spoiled, eh? Well excuse me for wanting to be able to focus my thoughts onto something other than the ambient temperature, and for wanting to not drown in my own sweat.

Seriously, now that uncomfortable weather is largely a solved problem in the modern world, we really would do better to move on to less mundane problems that have yet to be solved.

Re: How the Car Keeps Americans Apart

#173

Post by cimmanom » Fri, Jul 20, 2018, 12:46 PM UTC

GiorgioG wrote: post #93

I personally love driving - but I work from home. Nothing makes me happier than remote starting my F150 and hearing its V8 roar from inside the house through several walls/doors. Have kids? When your kid spikes a fever at 1am and you have no car and you need to go buy some children’s ibuprofen, what are you going to do? I can run to my local 24/7 grocer or Walmart and be back in 10 minutes flat. My son had a bad reac…

Ibuprofen at 3am? Go downstairs and walk around the corner to the bodega or 24-hour pharmacy.

Re: How the Car Keeps Americans Apart

#174

Post by kaybe » Fri, Jul 20, 2018, 12:51 PM UTC

MarkusAllen wrote: post #15

sillysaurus3 wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hope the first HN comment is always a book suggestion. :) I recently got rid of my car after four years of living in a city. I don't know why I held onto it for so long, but my life has improved dramatically. Not only can I go anywhere I want, but I never have to worry about permits, tickets, or parking. This lifestyle can't work for people outside of cities, though. There's no way to get anyplace without a car, an…

In a city, how do you handle buying a socket wrench to fix something in your house? (It sounds like a MAJOR hassle.)

How do you handle it somewhere else? It can only get worse.

In the city I have the shops around and a lot of transport options (bike, bus, tram, walk, carsharing..) or I can order it online, or, gasp, ask any of my 20 neighbours. Elsewhere your options are far more limited.

Re: How the Car Keeps Americans Apart

#175

Post by GiorgioG » Fri, Jul 20, 2018, 12:58 PM UTC

dionidium wrote: post #108

GiorgioG wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m happy for you but not everyone lives in such a place that has that many options within spitting distance.

Sure, but the point is that nothing in your post was made possible by the automobile. People in walkable cities do everything you mention and they did all those things before the invention of the automobile. If you build a suburb so that you need a car, then, sure, I guess you'll need a car. But that's not because any of those activities require a car. It's just that your town was built to require it! If we put a dom…

> If you build a suburb

I didn't build a suburb - it was already here, just like you didn't build the city you live in. I drove to the suburb to begin with of my own free will because I didn't like living in a city (having already done so, Buffalo & Boston.) I'd already made the choice to live a lifestyle that is automobile-inclusive ;)

You don't get to judge or decide for me what is right for me and vice-versa. We all have a choices to make and do the best we can with what we have.

It's interesting that for all the intelligent people on HN, there's a lack of empathy and understanding that everyone has their own perception of reality. What's 'right' and 'real' in your mind may 1) not actually be reality 2) be neither 'right' nor 'wrong', but just a personal preference/opinion. I got a taste of this myself when I stumbled upon this book (and it's second part) https://www.amazon.com/DAY-Through-German-Eyes-Hidden-ebook/... (D-Day through German Eyes.) It's been eye-opening for me because I'd always assumed the Germans troops were evil men who were all bent on conquering Europe.

Re: How the Car Keeps Americans Apart

#176

Post by kaybe » Fri, Jul 20, 2018, 12:59 PM UTC

KozmoNau7 wrote: post #162

chiiidog wrote: post #91

I'm torn. I hate driving to work but, living in Colorado, I can't imagine not having a car to drive up to the mountains. Ideally, I could use public transit for getting around in town and just use my car when I need to either transport things or leave the city. Unfortunately, the closest light rail stations to my home and work are about 1 and 2 miles respectively--a long walk. I've recently considered the combination…

Definitely try riding your bike to the light rail station, 1-2 miles is a very comfortable riding distance.

An electric scooter could be good too, depending on the road surface.

Re: How the Car Keeps Americans Apart

#177

Post by GiorgioG » Fri, Jul 20, 2018, 1:01 PM UTC

cimmanom wrote: post #173

GiorgioG wrote: post #93

I personally love driving - but I work from home. Nothing makes me happier than remote starting my F150 and hearing its V8 roar from inside the house through several walls/doors. Have kids? When your kid spikes a fever at 1am and you have no car and you need to go buy some children’s ibuprofen, what are you going to do? I can run to my local 24/7 grocer or Walmart and be back in 10 minutes flat. My son had a bad reac…

Ibuprofen at 3am? Go downstairs and walk around the corner to the bodega or 24-hour pharmacy.

Having lived in 2 cities in the US and in Europe in bad neighborhoods, you'd not catch me walking around past 11pm especially in the summer.

Don't assume that everyone can live a life of privilege in an upscale urban area.

Re: How the Car Keeps Americans Apart

#178

Post by GiorgioG » Fri, Jul 20, 2018, 1:05 PM UTC

adrianN wrote: post #125

GiorgioG wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m happy for you but not everyone lives in such a place that has that many options within spitting distance.

So your argument is that you need your car because you don't live in a place that is designed for humans, so we shouldn't change cities to be less car dependent?

> designed for humans

That's such a nonsensical argument. Suburbs weren't designed for elephants, they were created for humans, just like cities. You want to alleviate the dependence on cars in cities, make public transportation as convenient and flexible as having a car. Oh wait, you can't. People have cars because they do provide a perceived benefit, otherwise people would choose the alternative in droves.

Maybe you all should create a pedestrian-only city and live happily ever after.

Re: How the Car Keeps Americans Apart

#179

Post by cimmanom » Fri, Jul 20, 2018, 1:13 PM UTC

GiorgioG wrote: post #177

cimmanom wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ibuprofen at 3am? Go downstairs and walk around the corner to the bodega or 24-hour pharmacy.

Having lived in 2 cities in the US and in Europe in bad neighborhoods, you'd not catch me walking around past 11pm especially in the summer. Don't assume that everyone can live a life of privilege in an upscale urban area.

I’ve done that as a small woman living alone in an opposite-of-upscale neighborhood, across the street from a public housing project. Really not a big deal.

I don’t know what neighborhoods you were living in, but my experience is that for every dangerous urban neighborhood there’s an equally affordable one that isn’t dangerous if you know where to look.

And it’s not like everyone can afford the privilege of a car either.

Re: How the Car Keeps Americans Apart

#180

Post by dionidium » Fri, Jul 20, 2018, 1:16 PM UTC

GiorgioG wrote: post #175

dionidium wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, but the point is that nothing in your post was made possible by the automobile. People in walkable cities do everything you mention and they did all those things before the invention of the automobile. If you build a suburb so that you need a car, then, sure, I guess you'll need a car. But that's not because any of those activities require a car. It's just that your town was built to require it! If we put a dom…

> If you build a suburb I didn't build a suburb - it was already here, just like you didn't build the city you live in. I drove to the suburb to begin with of my own free will because I didn't like living in a city (having already done so, Buffalo & Boston.) I'd already made the choice to live a lifestyle that is automobile-inclusive ;) You don't get to judge or decide for me what is right for me and vice-versa. We a…

Unfortunately, this live-and-let-live account of history simply isn’t true. The suburbs were made possible via massive government subsidies, both in infrastructure and incentives for suburban homeownership.

Also, exclusionary zoning played an enormous role in deciding what those places looked like and they did it in large part to control who got to live there.

Finally, your lifestyle choices have externalities, from the immediately obvious 30k deaths a year, to more dangerous streets for people who choose not to drive, to environmental damage, to cities clogged with the cars of suburban commuters twice a day.