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A Blockchain Analysis of the July 13th Mueller Indictment

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Re: A Blockchain Analysis of the July 13th Mueller Indictment

#51

I have to imagine that the first person at the FBI (or whichever agency is responsible for tracking money laundering) to come across bitcoin fell out of their chair laughing when they came across it. It's a protocol that has a public, dated, irrefutable log of every transaction made... and its users think it untraceable (or at least, they thought it untraceable back when it first came out).

it's about as untraceable as cash. If you pick some up anonymously, then use a different address for each transaction, all while obfuscating your connection using Tor or the like, your transactions should be difficult to trace.

> If you pick some up anonymously,

That's quite the premise. For the layperson, there are very few ways to come across Bitcoin anonymously.

Re: A Blockchain Analysis of the July 13th Mueller Indictment

#52
post #19

The only problem is there is no way to prove that that address actually belongs to the GRU. The transaction referenced in the indictment clearly happened, but Mueller and his team could have easily searched through the Bitcoin blockchain to find any transaction that paid for a VPN, hosting, or domain registration using Bitcoin on or around the date of the hack. The indictment makes it sound like the request for 0.026…

The only problem is there is no way to prove that that address actually belongs to the GRU.

They don't have to. This case isn't going to trial; it was basically a PR stunt. It wouldn't survive a trial. The strategy is simple: Indict a bunch of people that you cannot extradite, and you get a PR win with just some broad strokes and have to prove nothing. You get to keep your unlimited budget to continue the investigation, and the press keeps listening to you.

Re: A Blockchain Analysis of the July 13th Mueller Indictment

#53

I have to imagine that the first person at the FBI (or whichever agency is responsible for tracking money laundering) to come across bitcoin fell out of their chair laughing when they came across it. It's a protocol that has a public, dated, irrefutable log of every transaction made... and its users think it untraceable (or at least, they thought it untraceable back when it first came out).

> ...they thought it untraceable back when it first came out

I'm guessing you haven't read the white paper where this was directly addressed - by the creator. Page 6 of a 9 page document: https://bitcoin.org/bitcoin.pdf

Re: A Blockchain Analysis of the July 13th Mueller Indictment

#54
post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hacker news has a shadow banning problem. Unpopular opinions are downvoted into oblivion. Then your posts start going into the void.

I mean if your speech cannot survive in a free marketplace of ideas...

HN is a "marketplace of ideas" the way Mao's Hundred Flowers campaign was. Post article on controversial or flamebait-ish topic, wait for users to take the bait, then yell at them.

Their house, their rules, and IMHO the good outweighs the bad... but make no mistake, calling HN a "marketplace of ideas" is inappropriate.

Re: A Blockchain Analysis of the July 13th Mueller Indictment

#55

I have to imagine that the first person at the FBI (or whichever agency is responsible for tracking money laundering) to come across bitcoin fell out of their chair laughing when they came across it. It's a protocol that has a public, dated, irrefutable log of every transaction made... and its users think it untraceable (or at least, they thought it untraceable back when it first came out).

Monerro is the only currency that is very very hard to trace. Most other currencies are a joke.

Re: A Blockchain Analysis of the July 13th Mueller Indictment

#56

I have to imagine that the first person at the FBI (or whichever agency is responsible for tracking money laundering) to come across bitcoin fell out of their chair laughing when they came across it. It's a protocol that has a public, dated, irrefutable log of every transaction made... and its users think it untraceable (or at least, they thought it untraceable back when it first came out).

[deleted]

Re: A Blockchain Analysis of the July 13th Mueller Indictment

#57
post #25
post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You might be interested in Micah F. Lee's take: https://theintercept.com/2018/07/18/mueller-indictment-russi...

TY, that is very interesting... also surprisingly lazy by the Russians. I would have thought there would have been clear protocols about VPNs, some "we're 99.999% sure this is a clean laptop, don't do anything else here, and only do thing here and inside this brand new VM each day..." kinda stuff that would prevent such mistakes.

The problem with these allegations is they always seem to have this sort of issue, as well as logical problems. Some of the things in the article don't really make any sense. For instance they state that they way they decided that Guccifer was part of the GRU is that on one occasion the IP for that Twitter account was from the GRU.

They then state that that must mean that the Russians must have forgotten to log onto their VPN first. But I mean, what? Using a dedicated VPN makes no real sense in the era of TOR, and such a mistake would have been literally impossible with TOR. It's also mentioned in the article that "The US (or a partner)" hacked at least two GRU computers. If this is the case then it's safe to assume other actors could have as well, and suddenly what exactly does a login from the GRU IP actually mean?

Or in the machines that the GRU allegedly hacked, their behavior was discovered by the presence of logs that the hackers apparently had to manually delete? State level malware does not automatically delete logs? Wow. And then they allegedly rented servers in Arizona and Illinois for illicit activities, knowing full well that their are a gazillion different domestic digital surveillance programs being carried out by the NSA? And then apparently they were exchanging emails, literally discussing theft of DNC materials, in plain text without encryption?

These things just never really make any logical sense. It simultaneously tries to paint Russians as these super hackers capable of achieving anything. And then it also shows them getting busted making mistakes that I'd like to call amateur, but that implies that these are mistakes even an amateur might reasonably make, which is probably doubtful. It's bizarre.

Re: A Blockchain Analysis of the July 13th Mueller Indictment

#58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't have to do any of that with cash.

Really? you think cash that you withdraw from the ATM is not traceable to you?

No. Banks don't tie the serial numbers on bills dispensed at an ATM to the cardholder who withdrew it.

Assuming you're right, though, other anonymous ways to get cash include:

- selling something

- getting paid in cash (as many restaurant and undocumented workers do)

- laundering it

- stealing it

- using a stolen ATM card

Re: A Blockchain Analysis of the July 13th Mueller Indictment

#59
post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not counterpoint, it's just typical right wing propaganda.

why is right full of 'typical' propaganda while left is honest ppl with verifiable facts. seems curious

> He says stories like this work because they fit into existing right-wing conspiracy theories.

>"The people wanted to hear this," he says. "So all it took was to write that story. Everything about it was fictional: the town, the people, the sheriff, the FBI guy. And then ... our social media guys kind of go out and do a little dropping it throughout Trump groups and Trump forums and boy it spread like wildfire."

>Coler says his writers have tried to write fake news for liberals — but they just never take the bait.

https://www.npr.org/sections/alltechconsidered/2016/11/23/50...

Re: A Blockchain Analysis of the July 13th Mueller Indictment

#60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, maybe something is damning, but if you believe that these "operatives" signed their e-mails with their full names including patronymics and ranks like "GRU captain" I have a cheap sunny beach in Greenland for sale. Or if you believe that the US spies had somehow full access to this info and are not afraid to compromise their sources by these revelations. Or, finally, if you believe that the US security agencies…

What is your explanation of those ledger entries? Was Mueller setting up Russia before he was named Special Counsel? Also, I read the indictment ( https://d3i6fh83elv35t.cloudfront.net/static/2018/07/Mueller... ) but I missed the part about, "these "operatives" signed their e-mails with their full names including patronymics and ranks like "GRU captain"" . Please point me to it? I assumed they used stolen identities,…

I don't think there has been any public release of information confirming the evidence revealed in the indictment. Indictments are supposed to be somewhat hyperbolic in appearance (not literally, but figuratively). They aren't supposed to lie, but at the same time they will omit key facts explaining how or why they know or suspect person X did action Y. Those facts will be revealed to the defense or during trial. Unfortunately, these indictments will never result in a trial or pre-trial discovery on part of the defense, so the public may never know the reasons.

That said, the Dutch were able to watch[0] Unit 26165 (a/k/a Cozy Bear, APT29) on CCTV, so it doesn't seem entirely implausible that the NSA or some other FVEY group was capable of retrieving emails from whatever webmail provider Unit 26165 was using (appears to be yandex and mail.com in the indictment).

0: https://www.volkskrant.nl/wetenschap/dutch-agencies-provide-...

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