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Python has brought computer programming to a vast new audience

economist.com

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Re: Python has brought computer programming to a vast new audience

#211

Post by xapata »

mockingbirdy wrote: post #208
xapata wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe widespread employment as programmers is the only possible way for the US economy to have a large middle class in the coming decades. Unionized manufacturing ain't coming back.

Sorry to disappoint you, but there won't be a large middle class in industrial nations. It will be gig-based and there will be a big group of people working hard who get nothing and a small group of people who are extremely wealthy and disconnected. You don't like Fiverr? Imagine that our whole job market runs like this in the future. The profit margin will be extremely small. You need a website or a logo? Create a F…

It's not that I'll be disappointed, but that programming is my only hope.

I'm one of the lottery ticket winner, 1% folks. I'd feel better if things were more equal, but it'd probably be better for me if it isn't.

Re: Python has brought computer programming to a vast new audience

#212

Post by mockingbirdy »

latexr wrote: post #143
mockingbirdy wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh, I see. I use spaces and vim (I do, but who cares). Let's start a flamewar. /s Every time I think about tabs/spaces, I think about that episode in Silicon Valley [1]. Hilariously accurate, I have the exact same feeling when somebody uses the mouse to copy something or navigate. The cringe makes me feel alive (I guess this is the ultimate reason for those flamewars. And neurotic tendencies, of course). [1]: https:/…

Whenever I see that clip what I’m left wondering is if there really are people that press the space bar eight times. I have no recent memory of any editor didn’t let me press the tab key and have spaces appear instead.

Yeah, that was annoying. If she had configured her editor to insert 4 spaces (or 8, but I think it's too many) when she presses the tab key, it would be more realistic and they could still be together (until he reads through her code). [sheds a tear].

Re: Python has brought computer programming to a vast new audience

#213

Post by polotics »

qubax wrote: post #178
lordnacho wrote: post #49

Someone else said this on HN: Python is the second best language in almost every field of computing. That's why there's a library for everything in Python. It's limitations are also not terrible for most people. If you want super fast, you will know how to do that some other way. If you just want simple and easy to read, you use Python.

> Someone else said this on HN: Python is the second best language in almost every field of computing. It isn't. Frankly, it isn't even top 3 in any "field of computing" depending on how you define "field of computing". What python has going for it is the evangelists who do a great job of spreading the word and of course funding - they have lots of money backing the language. Also, being an interpreted language, it h…

Lots of money? Lots of unpaid volunteers! Compare with Java, Go, JS, Swift, even Rust!

Re: Python has brought computer programming to a vast new audience

#214

Post by polotics »

KirinDave wrote: post #40

Read the comments here. Look at the diversity of opinions and the number of them that, while professing love for Python, directly contradict each other. Python is verbose|concise, simple|advanced, disciplined|experimental, modern|classical. It goes to show: something doesn't need to be actually-better. It doesn't need to be actually-simpler. It doesn't need to make your job easier or better. It needs to make people t…

I am sorry but this does not compute: how is it "forced" on audiences?

Re: Python has brought computer programming to a vast new audience

#215

Post by mockingbirdy »

xapata wrote: post #211
mockingbirdy wrote: post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry to disappoint you, but there won't be a large middle class in industrial nations. It will be gig-based and there will be a big group of people working hard who get nothing and a small group of people who are extremely wealthy and disconnected. You don't like Fiverr? Imagine that our whole job market runs like this in the future. The profit margin will be extremely small. You need a website or a logo? Create a F…

It's not that I'll be disappointed, but that programming is my only hope. I'm one of the lottery ticket winner, 1% folks. I'd feel better if things were more equal, but it'd probably be better for me if it isn't.

Ok. Now I'm seriously depressed.

I think I will head to this [1] again to celebrate our insignificance in the whole scheme. Due to the very likely assumption that the thing that contains the universe (and also is the universe) is not bound to time and quantum effects lead to every possible reality (because it has infinity at its disposal) this is just one of those reincarnations where the human nature gets in the way of social equality.

[1]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17559822

A link that expands on the middle class discussion and a George Carlin video:

https://www.thomhartmann.com/blog/2014/04/middle-class-not-%...

https://youtu.be/XdH38k0iUgI

Re: Python has brought computer programming to a vast new audience

#216

Post by mockingbirdy »

mr_toad wrote: post #120
mockingbirdy wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know the situation in the US, but here in Germany the companies always say "Oh no, we don't have enough computer scientists" and continue to pay low salaries. Many people thought that CS grads were needed and chose it, but they earn average salaries and sometimes even have to fight for the good seats. Our definition of skill shortage is that there are only 3 applicants for one open position. This means a skil…

“We don’t have enough X” can also mean “teach more X in schools/tertiary education so we don’t have to pay for training”.

This is exactly what they're doing. I think it's irresponsible to manipulate the youth and telling them that everyone should be a programmer. The companies won't feel responsible for all the jobless or unhappy people they've created through lobbying and will blame politics. Man, I seriously hope I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure I'm not.

Re: Python has brought computer programming to a vast new audience

#218

Post by xapata »

KirinDave wrote: post #194
xapata wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Proof? Describe what proof means to you. The fact that Javascript decided not to adopt the syntax seems like good evidence to me. I'm not asking you to do anything. I'm offering you some insights. Normally people pay me for my time, but I suppose I feel like volunteering at the moment.

The fact that python decided to use a different syntax doesn't prove that it was good either. What you volunteered to me is a mirror image of an argument you think I presented, then suggested my version was wrong. But I'm not actually advocating for JavaScript syntax here. I just don't think list comprehension syntax, as presented by python, is particularly better in comparison. You said it's much better, then demand…

Demanded? I ain't demanding shit. Certainly not of a stranger on the internet.

Re: Python has brought computer programming to a vast new audience

#219

Post by xapata »

mockingbirdy wrote: post #215
xapata wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not that I'll be disappointed, but that programming is my only hope. I'm one of the lottery ticket winner, 1% folks. I'd feel better if things were more equal, but it'd probably be better for me if it isn't.

Ok. Now I'm seriously depressed. I think I will head to this [1] again to celebrate our insignificance in the whole scheme. Due to the very likely assumption that the thing that contains the universe (and also is the universe) is not bound to time and quantum effects lead to every possible reality (because it has infinity at its disposal) this is just one of those reincarnations where the human nature gets in the way…

I'm certain that the phenomenon of a widespread middle class is bizarre in the grand scheme of things. Exponential functions don't generally have a bulge in the middle of the curve. We had one for a few decades and may yet again for another few. In the long run, it's quite unlikely that capitalism can sustain an exponential curve of wealth yet have a bulge in the "middle class" section.

Re: Python has brought computer programming to a vast new audience

#220

Post by tryptophan »

throwaway5752 wrote: post #4

I remember hating the whitespace thing so much when I started with Python circa 2.4, but have really come to love the language in a lot of domains since then. A huge, huge "thank you" to Mr. van Rossum for creating this quirky language that I've become so fond of and for the countless hours of his life he's given to the project.

I've grown to accept it. However, sometimes I wish we had something to replace braces like some IDE coloring schemes to clearly represent indentation levels. In larger programs it gets difficult to tell apart levels sometimes.
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