Simone Giertz – Back from brain surgery [video] • Hacker News Board

Re: Simone Giertz – Back from brain surgery [video]

#131

Post by AndrewKemendo » Thu, Jul 19, 2018, 9:46 PM UTC

dredmorbius wrote: post #118

AndrewKemendo wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Decades of pop-econ has pushed the narrative that GDP or Purchasing Power Parity is somehow related to how individuals can access capital. It always finds the form of "America is the richest country in the world, yet they can't [insert problem]." This assumes that there is some objective resource need recognition system and misses that there is no overarching explicit capital allocation system to direct funds in such…

What's the counterargument to PPP/

It's still an aggregate number, and doesn't take into account things like wealth inequality, social mobility etc... which we seem to care about more. It also doesn't differentiate between goods broadly - just in relation to currency indexes.

Re: Simone Giertz – Back from brain surgery [video]

#132

Post by AndrewKemendo » Thu, Jul 19, 2018, 9:49 PM UTC

s73v3r_ wrote: post #79

AndrewKemendo wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Decades of pop-econ has pushed the narrative that GDP or Purchasing Power Parity is somehow related to how individuals can access capital. It always finds the form of "America is the richest country in the world, yet they can't [insert problem]." This assumes that there is some objective resource need recognition system and misses that there is no overarching explicit capital allocation system to direct funds in such…

Except that's not true. Our government could very, very, very easily enact single payer, and we have plenty enough wealth to do it.

Your comment basically restates the same argument only backward:

"America has enough wealth, why can't we just enact single payer?"

It completely ignores the structural challenges to doing that.

Re: Simone Giertz – Back from brain surgery [video]

#133

Post by Rjevski » Thu, Jul 19, 2018, 9:51 PM UTC

bloopernova wrote: post #17

justaman wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I recently had a heart thing that put me in the hospital and included a med-flight to the hospital. Total bill was close to $40,000 if i'm not mistaken. I had to cover the $4,000 deductible but after that everything was covered. Additionally, my employer is part of something I don't understand(insurance is too damn confusing), I think its an HSA which covered an additional $2,000 towards my deductible. End of the day…

I hope you are doing OK now, and I'm glad your insurance/billing situation was resolved relatively easily. I really, really wish insurance was less confusing though! So many copays, coinsurances, deductibles, out of pocket maximum, lifetime maximum, different tiers of drug prices, etc etc. That stuff should be made simple by law.

This can’t be made simple by law when the lawmakers profit off the current situation.

Re: Simone Giertz – Back from brain surgery [video]

#134

Post by spamizbad » Thu, Jul 19, 2018, 10:09 PM UTC

slg wrote: post #129

spamizbad wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think it's broken at all. Tort law, in general, is what we use as an alternative to more aggressive regulation. You remove tort options, the side-effect will just be more regulatory measures.

Imagine a world in which a software developer was held personally liable for any work they did. First off, this would kill of a huge part of the open source community (the free as in beer software would all disappear). Employee contracts might be structured in such a way that the employee is responsible for any potential liability. Any customer who felt wronged could sue the individual developer who wrote that code.…

> Imagine a world in which a software developer was held personally liable for any work they did.

We already live in this world, it’s just that most software had zero impact on the wellbeing of individuals and/or its mostly licensed as-is.

Software with actual guarantees behind it tends to be very expensive. Their users have tort recourse.

Also major software companies get sued and settle on a fairy regular basis.

Re: Simone Giertz – Back from brain surgery [video]

#135

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Jul 19, 2018, 10:24 PM UTC

spamizbad wrote: post #134

slg wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Imagine a world in which a software developer was held personally liable for any work they did. First off, this would kill of a huge part of the open source community (the free as in beer software would all disappear). Employee contracts might be structured in such a way that the employee is responsible for any potential liability. Any customer who felt wronged could sue the individual developer who wrote that code.…

> Imagine a world in which a software developer was held personally liable for any work they did. We already live in this world, it’s just that most software had zero impact on the wellbeing of individuals and/or its mostly licensed as-is. Software with actual guarantees behind it tends to be very expensive. Their users have tort recourse. Also major software companies get sued and settle on a fairy regular basis.

[deleted]

Re: Simone Giertz – Back from brain surgery [video]

#136

Post by slg » Thu, Jul 19, 2018, 10:29 PM UTC

spamizbad wrote: post #134

slg wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Imagine a world in which a software developer was held personally liable for any work they did. First off, this would kill of a huge part of the open source community (the free as in beer software would all disappear). Employee contracts might be structured in such a way that the employee is responsible for any potential liability. Any customer who felt wronged could sue the individual developer who wrote that code.…

> Imagine a world in which a software developer was held personally liable for any work they did. We already live in this world, it’s just that most software had zero impact on the wellbeing of individuals and/or its mostly licensed as-is. Software with actual guarantees behind it tends to be very expensive. Their users have tort recourse. Also major software companies get sued and settle on a fairy regular basis.

>most software had zero impact on the wellbeing of individuals

I agree with the "most" designation, but there is still plenty of software that does have a direct impact.

>or its mostly licensed as-is.

Which is exactly my point. Most software comes with an agreement that limits the liability for the company or person who created or sold the software. Developers are able to hand waive away that legal liability in ways that other professions, specifically in the industry, are not able to.

>Software with actual guarantees behind it tends to be very expensive. Their users have tort recourse.

But that is dictated by the contract which sets standard that is above the legal bare minimum. The legal minimum is much higher for doctors.

>Also major software companies get sued and settle on a fairy regular basis.

I will admit my analogy isn't perfect because of the relatively high number of private practice doctors compared with the relatively lower number of smaller ISV developers. Doctors as a whole have a much higher exposure than software developers as a whole. That is why I noted that contracts might change if software malpractice cases really became a thing.

Re: Simone Giertz – Back from brain surgery [video]

#137

Post by germanier » Thu, Jul 19, 2018, 10:31 PM UTC

mgkimsal wrote: post #106

heeeman wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Only thing I paid? The taxi ride home. For anything else there was my insurance card. Oh, so you don't pay for your insurance card? Nice deal! Because I also have public health insurance in Germany, and last time I checked, it cost 14% of my gross salary.

and if you're unemployed (or unemployable) do you lose the ability to use the insurance? does it get cancelled if you don't pay?

The first month after getting unemployed is free, after that either the unemployment insurance or the government takes over your payment.

If you have to pay the fee on your own and miss at least two months (which can't really happen for regular employees as the fee is taken directly out of their paycheck) the fees can be collected with exactly the same procedure as other taxes. Until this happens you are only covered in an acute illness or pain situation, pregnancy, and for some preventive checkups. Health insurance (both private and public) can never be cancelled for nonpayment.

Re: Simone Giertz – Back from brain surgery [video]

#138

Post by gregpilling » Thu, Jul 19, 2018, 10:32 PM UTC

slg wrote: post #62

goodells wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The whole system is awe-inspiring. Have a medical emergency? We'll send a several-ton box on wheels speeding your way within minutes. If you're in a city, the traffic lights will turn red as the emergency vehicle approaches to make passing safer. Paramedics trained in evidence-based pre-hospital medicine will perform the interventions most likely to save you based on their field impression. And when you arrive at the…

And if you live in the US and don't have good medical insurance the entire thing might leave you bankrupt and homeless. The ingenuity of humanity is amazing, but we still seem to get in our own ways a lot.

My son had brain surgery when he was 6. He is now 14. The helicopter ride of 100 miles to the brain center was $25,000 and the brain surgery was $46,000. The helicopter ride took 1 hour and used 2 people. The brain surgery was 6 hours and involved at least 3 surgeons, plus unknown number of support staff. Insurance was willing to cover the surgery, but we had to fight for 6 months for the helicopter ride.

To quote the lead surgeon during the 6 month follow up - "I stopped looking at what we billed, and what I got paid years ago. It never made any sense to me, so I focused on the patient outcome, which did make sense to me". Great human, saved my kids life, was totally supportive afterwards and stayed in touch for a few years.

Medical practices in the USA makes no sense to me. I am Canadian.

Relevant to Simone, I have a friend who had the same problem and actually went to the same surgeon for the problem, but 5 years earlier. My son was recovered in a few days, she spent 6 months in the hospital to recover. The change was a new technique. They fixed my son through his leg, my friend had her skull removed and replaced.

Humanity can do awesome things sometimes. Sometimes great, sometimes horrid.

Re: Simone Giertz – Back from brain surgery [video]

#139

Post by germanier » Thu, Jul 19, 2018, 10:33 PM UTC

heeeman wrote: post #99

germanier wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm member of a German public health fund (for political reasons, I could instead opt for cheaper private health insurance which many people argue is better, this option is not even available to most of the population). Last year, I went directly to a specialist for a non-urgent reason (two weeks between my call and the appointment) who recommend surgery which was scheduled in a top university hospital about four wee…

> Only thing I paid? The taxi ride home. For anything else there was my insurance card. Oh, so you don't pay for your insurance card? Nice deal! Because I also have public health insurance in Germany, and last time I checked, it cost 14% of my gross salary.

Which is why I mentioned that in my very first sentence. Of course insurance is not free, don't pretend anyone seriously thinks that.

For employees, half of the fee is payed by their employer.

Re: Simone Giertz – Back from brain surgery [video]

#140

Post by schreiaj » Thu, Jul 19, 2018, 11:10 PM UTC

tonysdg wrote: post #2

So glad to see Simone back on her feet. The sh y robot nation needs its queen! As for that bill -- I'm curious: is there any resource I can look up to see how much of that the average Medicare/Medicaid/private insurance plan pays? I ask because I just had two teeth repaired after a bike accident and it'll cost me ~$100 after insurance covers the other ~$500. By that ratio, she'd be looking at ~$38,000 bill.

Because you asked about Medicare specifically, that information IS somewhat available. It'll take some digging into it but the raw data is available at https://www.cms.gov/Medicare/Medicare-Fee-for-Service-Paymen...

I will tell you it's HEAVILY dependent on the zip code and procedures.

Private insurance is a whole different mess, likely going to hit deductible and be done. Last time my partner had to have surgery and billed insurance she paid $1000 and the insurance picked up the other $10k+ (precancerous mass removal, 45 minute surgery).