Simone Giertz – Back from brain surgery [video] • Hacker News Board

Re: Simone Giertz – Back from brain surgery [video]

#81

Post by Mountain_Skies » Thu, Jul 19, 2018, 5:34 PM UTC

ryanmercer wrote: post #7

mosselman wrote: post #6

Yikes, what a bill. My mother had brain surgery a few years ago and didn’t have to pay for anything besides the insurance she always pay for which amounts to a few hundred euros a year.

>Yikes, what a bill. Yeah, cancer-related bills can add up fast. Worse, they'll send you bills for years after the fact... my father had been dead almost a decade from his cancer and the occasional bill would still come and my mom would have to spend hours arguing with them on the phone "uh yeah, he's dead, he's been dead, this happened a decade ago, get your shit together" and they'd usually be all 'oops our bad' al…

The terribly low degree of accuracy in medical billing might be partially why the credit agencies are placing lower weight on medical debt than they used to.

Re: Simone Giertz – Back from brain surgery [video]

#82

Post by jackhack » Thu, Jul 19, 2018, 5:39 PM UTC

goodells wrote: post #35

PuffinBlue wrote: post #27

We live in a world of marvels. Often we talk of the future and it's wonders waiting to be discovered, but the here and now has become equally astonishing. The breadth, depth and scale of human ingenuity and endeavour is jaw-dropping and here Simone and her story is another example. Maybe I'm being trite by looking for the good in the bad but pause for a moment and think of all that has been learned, how we have built…

The whole system is awe-inspiring. Have a medical emergency? We'll send a several-ton box on wheels speeding your way within minutes. If you're in a city, the traffic lights will turn red as the emergency vehicle approaches to make passing safer. Paramedics trained in evidence-based pre-hospital medicine will perform the interventions most likely to save you based on their field impression. And when you arrive at the…

Awe inspiring is correct!

My grandmother was born in 1888. In her lifetime, she saw the first automobile, the first airplane (propeller-driven, followed by jet aircraft!), radio, "talkies" (movies with soundtracks), television (black & white, then colour!), stereo records, indoor plumbing and electrical service, electronic computers, rockets, artificial satellites, the moon landing, refrigeration(!), vaccinations and antibiotics(!), the internet, and on and on.

She lived through two world wars, and the aftermath, losing brothers and friends as a result. There were joys and horrors to be sure. She remembered seeing the first car (which she called "a noisy piece of junk"), and the first time she spotted an airplane, and her first electric appliances (refrigerator and clothes washer).

For a thousand years prior, life had changed but only incrementally -- someone from the year 900 could still recognize life in 1400. However, in this short 100 year span during her lifetime, from 1890 to 1990, the transformation of civilization was so thorough and amazing that it is difficult to appreciate civilization's quantum jump.

What a profound change! Just stop and imagine this for a moment: a world without automobiles, where all travel is by horse/carriage, or train, or boat, or foot. No antibiotics. The milkman delivered (unpasteurized milk to the front porch) and the ice man delivered a block of ice every few days. There was no telephone -- a telegraph was the "text message" of the day and the radio was as close to instant information as one could get. There was no telephone. Photographic news could take weeks/months to travel across a country or an ocean, and the only way to cross the oceans was a boat with cloth sales or a steam boiler and a commitment of months.

So to think of the transition from a time where a little scratch could lead to an infection that kills you, or an injury to a limb means chopping it off and hoping one lives, a scientific (lack of) understanding illuminated only briefly by Phineas Gage's tamper-rod-through-the-frontal-lobe injury to a time where surgeons can cut abnormal things out of your brain and you go home in a couple days functioning normally is just astounding.

We live in a time of miracles. There is no other way to say it.

Re: Simone Giertz – Back from brain surgery [video]

#83

Post by wpietri » Thu, Jul 19, 2018, 5:48 PM UTC

SketchySeaBeast wrote: post #33

JacobDotVI wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's worse than that: "63% Of Americans Don't Have Enough Savings To Cover A $500 Emergency" https://www.forbes.com/sites/maggiemcgrath/2016/01/06/63-of-...

But who would keep the predatory loan economies afloat if they couldn't prey on people in their time of need? I constantly hear economists saying people are spending outside their means, but when the price of getting sick with a throat infection is beyond their means, or will set their savings back by months or even years, is it really the people who are at fault?

And I'd add that we spend circa a half-trillion per year on various forms of advertising, marketing, PR, etc. (In comparison, the US spends $0.62 trillion/year on K-12 education.) The main purpose of that is to get people to spend money, often by demand generation.

Maybe if we don't want people spending beyond their means, we shouldn't have highly paid professions entirely devoted to getting people to spend without regard to their means.

Re: Simone Giertz – Back from brain surgery [video]

#84

Post by na85 » Thu, Jul 19, 2018, 5:53 PM UTC

ygra wrote: post #47

na85 wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think I'd rather wait longer for elective surgery than gamble on ruining my children's chances at going to university because I might have to spend their tuition on medical bills.

Don't most countries with socialized healthcare also have free (or affordable) education?

Canada doesn't have free post-secondary education but we have socialized healthcare.

When my daughter is old enough, if she wants to go to university or college, I will do my best to pay for as much as I can. The great thing about this country is that if she gets seriously sick I won't have to choose between her health and her education.

The US healthcare system is barbaric.

Re: Simone Giertz – Back from brain surgery [video]

#85

Post by germanier » Thu, Jul 19, 2018, 6:35 PM UTC

cobookman wrote: post #40

bloopernova wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> added stress of the huge bills I really wish people would talk about these sorts of soft costs more often. I grew up in the UK, moved to the USA in my mid 20s. While growing up, my parents divorced and my mother had to take care of me and a sibling. All 3 of us had medical conditions that needed regular care/checkups. Not once did my mum ever spend hours on the phone chasing down bills or insurance rejections. We n…

On the flip side people living in socialized healthcare Countries have other stresses. In the usa my insurance lets me go to 10 doctors for differing opinions. I can go straight to a specialist. When I need non urgent surgery it's scheduled with a few weeks instead of months.

I'm member of a German public health fund (for political reasons, I could instead opt for cheaper private health insurance which many people argue is better, this option is not even available to most of the population). Last year, I went directly to a specialist for a non-urgent reason (two weeks between my call and the appointment) who recommend surgery which was scheduled in a top university hospital about four weeks later and performed by a highly regarded doctor. To make sure this is a good idea I visited another specialist before. I could have visited more if I wanted but there is really no reason to do that. I worried about lots of things but not one second about billing issues, waiting times, or quality of care.

Only thing I paid? The taxi ride home. For anything else there was my insurance card.

This is the same type of insurance plan 89% of the population uses – including the unemployed, middle managers, elderly, students, chronically ill, and always healthy.

Re: Simone Giertz – Back from brain surgery [video]

#86

Post by inteleng » Thu, Jul 19, 2018, 6:37 PM UTC

ryanmercer wrote: post #7

mosselman wrote: post #6

Yikes, what a bill. My mother had brain surgery a few years ago and didn’t have to pay for anything besides the insurance she always pay for which amounts to a few hundred euros a year.

>Yikes, what a bill. Yeah, cancer-related bills can add up fast. Worse, they'll send you bills for years after the fact... my father had been dead almost a decade from his cancer and the occasional bill would still come and my mom would have to spend hours arguing with them on the phone "uh yeah, he's dead, he's been dead, this happened a decade ago, get your shit together" and they'd usually be all 'oops our bad' al…

This wasn't cancer, though.

Re: Simone Giertz – Back from brain surgery [video]

#87

Post by inteleng » Thu, Jul 19, 2018, 6:38 PM UTC

dv_dt wrote: post #75

throwaway5752 wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's really sobering to think about how often this happens per day, to less charismatic/attractive people without social media presences or worse/no insurance. Very happy for Simone (and felt the same way as you following the story) but also trying to take the opportune to empathize with a wider group of people.

It's an odd thought experiment to follow through that in the US we're supplying evolutionary selection for well networked extroverts via our healthcare + media and GoFundMe type mechanisms.

Just like Rome.

Re: Simone Giertz – Back from brain surgery [video]

#88

Post by dmfdmf » Thu, Jul 19, 2018, 6:51 PM UTC

s73v3r_ wrote: post #79

AndrewKemendo wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Decades of pop-econ has pushed the narrative that GDP or Purchasing Power Parity is somehow related to how individuals can access capital. It always finds the form of "America is the richest country in the world, yet they can't [insert problem]." This assumes that there is some objective resource need recognition system and misses that there is no overarching explicit capital allocation system to direct funds in such…

Except that's not true. Our government could very, very, very easily enact single payer, and we have plenty enough wealth to do it.

>...and we have plenty enough wealth to do it.

Whose wealth?

Re: Simone Giertz – Back from brain surgery [video]

#89

Post by pkaye » Thu, Jul 19, 2018, 6:52 PM UTC

ryandrake wrote: post #64

spamizbad wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In the usa my insurance lets me go to 10 doctors for differing opinions. I can go straight to a specialist. When I need non urgent surgery it's scheduled with a few weeks instead of months. Only if you have good insurance. Insurance companies have been cracking down on this behavior. For example, there are certain specialists which are straight-up not covered unless you have an explicit referral. Likewise, networks…

Yea, it’s a total minefield. It’s gotten to the point where I won’t go to the doctor unless I literally can’t function. Whenever I go, it’s the same song and dance: 1. Doc recommends a long list of blood tests for reasons she can’t seem to articulate. She’ll also recommend a testing lab. Oh, and see this specialist! 2. Now I have to figure out: a) which tests do I actually need and which ones are just being recommend…

One reason I like the Kaiser HMO system... Everything is under one umbrella. If a doctor approves a test, the system will cover under the plan agreement. I can take 1 test or 50 and it is all covered at a small copay per visit. And specialists are within the system. Last time I needed a specialist, my doctor looked up one in the system and told me there is an open slot in a few hours so he can book me. And once you establish tie with a doctor, you can email them for advice, prescription renewal anytime. For very simple problems, I just email the doctor my concern and maybe a picture and they may prescribe something if it doesn't need an office visit. All at zero cost.

There are still a occasional billing hiccups but the big tradeoff is that I can only visit the Kaiser hospitals except if I'm traveling and have an emergency.

Re: Simone Giertz – Back from brain surgery [video]

#90

Post by white-flame » Thu, Jul 19, 2018, 6:54 PM UTC

bootloop wrote: post #54

So this country doesn't make enough money to be able to keep some unlucky people alive without throwing them or their family into poverty? Or is it simply that nobody cares for anybody else as long as you are better off then them?

I think the fundamental personal issue in this country is that nobody wants to be told exactly what their government-mandated health regimen should be, or have the government decide which procedures they'll be allowed to have for their condition.

That ultimately means that they're locked into what their insurance company mandated health regimen should be. But at least they can sort of choose their insurer, or no insurer (which is usually 10-100 times cheaper on the total medical bill).