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Project Fuchsia: Google Is Quietly Working on a Successor to Android

bloomberg.com

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Re: Project Fuchsia: Google Is Quietly Working on a Successor to Android

#31

Post by pjmlp »

wpdev_63 wrote: post #9

I am really surprised Microsoft isn't doing something like this. They are losing the OS war.

Not really, they are winning the desktop and tablets (2-1) war.

Desktops aren't going away, and Macs are pretty much an US phenomenon, alongside a couple of other countries.

Likewise, Android tablets aren't that good, with most of the apps being phone apps. Google now is playing with ChromeOS for tablets, which also remains to be seen where it goes.

So, most consumer shops around here are now mostly selling iPads and Windows 10 tablets.

Re: Project Fuchsia: Google Is Quietly Working on a Successor to Android

#32

Post by drewda »

> "The company must also settle some internal feuds. Some of the principles that Fuchsia creators are pursuing have already run up against Google’s business model. Google’s ads business relies on an ability to target users based on their location and activity, and Fuchsia’s nascent privacy features would, if implemented, hamstring this important business. There’s already been at least one clash between advertising and engineering over security and privacy features of the fledgling operating system, according to a person familiar with the matter. The ad team prevailed, this person said."

Re: Project Fuchsia: Google Is Quietly Working on a Successor to Android

#33

Post by geocar »

simosx wrote: post #2

This Bloomberg article has several shortcomings. 1. "Android and Chrome OS are built on Linux, a widely used open-source programming language." Here they mix up the Linux kernel with the Java programming language. 2. "Moving from Linux, though, could have upsides for Google. Android’s use of the technology, which is owned by Oracle Corp., is at the center of a lengthy, bitter lawsuit between the two companies. Shifti…

> Here they mix up the Linux kernel with the Java programming language.

I parsed that comma as an "and".

> While here they mix up the Java programming language with the Linux kernel.

Did they? It might be implied that Google is dropping Java as well. Indeed other sources seem to suggest this is their strategy[1], [2], [3], [4]

My experiences with Bloomberg writers is that they're not lazy, but they elide a great deal of specificity to focus on the business effects and brands instead of technical bits and bobs.

[1]: https://www.theregister.co.uk/2017/11/21/android_the_next_10...

[2]: https://www.quora.com/Is-Google-implictly-going-to-drop-Java...

[3]: https://rethinkresearch.biz/articles/google-reveals-more-fuc...

[4]: https://www.androidauthority.com/we-compiled-fuchsia-os-7104...

Re: Project Fuchsia: Google Is Quietly Working on a Successor to Android

#34

Post by muricula »

wpdev_63 wrote: post #9

I am really surprised Microsoft isn't doing something like this. They are losing the OS war.

They tried to rewrite the OS in a C# derivative and could never meet the perf needed while still fighting backwards compatibility issues[0]. At this point mobile OS's are a lost cause, but the PC market is stable. Windows server has never been as big as Linux, but all of Azure runs the Windows hypervisor. I'm not sure they're losing at all actually. [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Midori_(operating_system)

Re: Project Fuchsia: Google Is Quietly Working on a Successor to Android

#35

Post by sergiomattei »

jokoon wrote: post #25

Apparently it uses a micro kernel, zircon. I'm curious about this kernel, honestly making something new from the ground up doesn't seem like a good idea. I wonder how much of an advantage it was for android to use linux as a kernel, but I guess it was a gigantic advantage, which let them focus on what mattered in the development of android. Other question: any kernel/OS developer here to explain if a micro kernel mak…

Eventually it turned into a disadvantage for them, as chip vendors nowadays ship extremely outdated and insecure versions of Linux and the driver model doesn't allow for frequent updates.

They made a step in the right direction with Project Treble though.

Re: Project Fuchsia: Google Is Quietly Working on a Successor to Android

#36

Post by Symmetry »

jokoon wrote: post #25

Apparently it uses a micro kernel, zircon. I'm curious about this kernel, honestly making something new from the ground up doesn't seem like a good idea. I wonder how much of an advantage it was for android to use linux as a kernel, but I guess it was a gigantic advantage, which let them focus on what mattered in the development of android. Other question: any kernel/OS developer here to explain if a micro kernel mak…

I think the idea is to let phone developers create drivers and then ignore them while Google is still able to update the rest of the OS around them.

Re: Project Fuchsia: Google Is Quietly Working on a Successor to Android

#37

Post by Matthias247 »

notatoad wrote: post #7
caycep wrote: post #5

This has been percolating along for a few years, no? I remember hearing vague announcements about a Fuchsia project for a while.

I don't think there's been much in the way of announcements, but yes, this has been in progress for a few years. It's being developed in the open, with a public github repo.

The source code in the open is one thing. However there are not a lot of design documents or discussions visible for the public. Therefore it's hard to follow the development and really getting an idea where the project is heading.

Re: Project Fuchsia: Google Is Quietly Working on a Successor to Android

#39

Post by Shooti »

forapurpose wrote: post #17

I've been wondering why so many Bloomberg articles have been on the front page recently, maybe in the last 3-6 months. This OP seems like a good example because there has been coverage of Fuchsia from more technical sources for awhile and I doubt the Bloomberg article adds much. Or is the change in frequency of Bloomberg posts just a misperception on my part? I don't have any data.

Due to Mark Gurmans track record a Bloomberg rumor on a tech companies future plans for a product are almost as trustworthy as official PR from the company. More leaks = more representation on HN.

Re: Project Fuchsia: Google Is Quietly Working on a Successor to Android

#40

Post by eganist »

drewda wrote: post #32

> "The company must also settle some internal feuds. Some of the principles that Fuchsia creators are pursuing have already run up against Google’s business model. Google’s ads business relies on an ability to target users based on their location and activity, and Fuchsia’s nascent privacy features would, if implemented, hamstring this important business. There’s already been at least one clash between advertising an…

> The ad team prevailed, this person said.

Of course they did.

A controversial idea, but you know how much easier this would be for everyone if Google offered an option for users to be paid for volunteering your information to them? It's a precedent most fledgling ad companies wouldn't be able to match... even if it's just a few dollars a month, or maybe 30ish bucks a year. It'd cut into Google's bottom line, but it would eradicate the competition.

And then on top of that, you've got the security and privacy wins by baking the product to be secure by default but allowing consumers to accept a paycheck to disable some of it for Google. That risk calculus works for plenty of people (if not for myself).

Google's wins:

• Security and Privacy by default

• Dismantling start-up competition who can't afford to pay for the data they harvest

• Growing marketshare.

Drawbacks:

• Immediate hit to Google's revenue stream

• Permanent assignment of value to data in the perception of consumers

The only big outstanding risk would be posed by rivals with large warchests able to subsidize a similar payment scheme, but honestly once that's done, the winner is a public which now has the ability to monetize their data.

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