Simone Giertz – Back from brain surgery [video] • Hacker News Board

Re: Simone Giertz – Back from brain surgery [video]

#51

Post by pornel » Thu, Jul 19, 2018, 3:22 PM UTC

cobookman wrote: post #40

bloopernova wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> added stress of the huge bills I really wish people would talk about these sorts of soft costs more often. I grew up in the UK, moved to the USA in my mid 20s. While growing up, my parents divorced and my mother had to take care of me and a sibling. All 3 of us had medical conditions that needed regular care/checkups. Not once did my mum ever spend hours on the phone chasing down bills or insurance rejections. We n…

On the flip side people living in socialized healthcare Countries have other stresses. In the usa my insurance lets me go to 10 doctors for differing opinions. I can go straight to a specialist. When I need non urgent surgery it's scheduled with a few weeks instead of months.

You know that's possible everywhere? It's not like socialized healthcare imprisons doctors and forbids capitalism.

You can still go to 10 doctors, and pay for 9 of these visits.

US companies operating in the UK even tend to provide private healthcare insurance. Such "perk" makes UK employees chuckle, but hey, if you want private healthcare, the same US/multinational corporations operate in the UK too.

Re: Simone Giertz – Back from brain surgery [video]

#52

Post by penguat » Thu, Jul 19, 2018, 3:22 PM UTC

HarryHirsch wrote: post #37

viraptor wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I remember someone on HN recommending to send a copy of the bill to some health billing transparency project, but I can't find the right link. Google comes up with https://www.fairhealthconsumer.org/ although I'm pretty sure it's a different service (they don't use the submitted bills from what I understand)

What's with the strange wording, why do they call patients "healthcare consumers" now?

If the patient is a dependent of someone, or a minor, or dies, does someone else pay? Is the consumer the person paying, or the patient?

Re: Simone Giertz – Back from brain surgery [video]

#53

Post by decebalus1 » Thu, Jul 19, 2018, 3:23 PM UTC

cobookman wrote: post #40

bloopernova wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> added stress of the huge bills I really wish people would talk about these sorts of soft costs more often. I grew up in the UK, moved to the USA in my mid 20s. While growing up, my parents divorced and my mother had to take care of me and a sibling. All 3 of us had medical conditions that needed regular care/checkups. Not once did my mum ever spend hours on the phone chasing down bills or insurance rejections. We n…

On the flip side people living in socialized healthcare Countries have other stresses. In the usa my insurance lets me go to 10 doctors for differing opinions. I can go straight to a specialist. When I need non urgent surgery it's scheduled with a few weeks instead of months.

Nice anecdote. I also have a few (also in the USA, with allegedly premium 1percenter insurance):

> I can go straight to a specialist.

Me too. But if I schedule an appointment with any specialist it's going to be at least a month. And after that appointment, the followup will be in another two months. The appointment costs at least $400 and gets me about 10 minutes of face-time with the doctor but about one hour with the administrative/support staff.

> When I need non urgent surgery it's scheduled with a few weeks instead of months.

That is true, because that's the bread-and-butter of the McMedicine world. If however you need to do something which is not an emergency and slightly off the beaten path in terms of symptoms or which crosses medical specializations, good luck coordinating medical care. You will be scheduled in a couple of months to minimize liability, so that perhaps it goes away or you go away.

Re: Simone Giertz – Back from brain surgery [video]

#54

Post by bootloop » Thu, Jul 19, 2018, 3:28 PM UTC

So this country doesn't make enough money to be able to keep some unlucky people alive without throwing them or their family into poverty? Or is it simply that nobody cares for anybody else as long as you are better off then them?

Re: Simone Giertz – Back from brain surgery [video]

#55

Post by visarga » Thu, Jul 19, 2018, 3:31 PM UTC

bootloop wrote: post #54

So this country doesn't make enough money to be able to keep some unlucky people alive without throwing them or their family into poverty? Or is it simply that nobody cares for anybody else as long as you are better off then them?

I think the second explanation works better - if we look at the way people vote. It's a religious thing to abandon people in suffering to banks and creditors. This way the holy right to make money is put in the first position.

Re: Simone Giertz – Back from brain surgery [video]

#56

Post by TeMPOraL » Thu, Jul 19, 2018, 3:34 PM UTC

XorNot wrote: post #44

goodells wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The whole system is awe-inspiring. Have a medical emergency? We'll send a several-ton box on wheels speeding your way within minutes. If you're in a city, the traffic lights will turn red as the emergency vehicle approaches to make passing safer. Paramedics trained in evidence-based pre-hospital medicine will perform the interventions most likely to save you based on their field impression. And when you arrive at the…

I have weirdly conflicted feelings when I see ambulances go by these days. Because part of me feels this sense of overwhelming pride watching that system work to save someone, people getting out of the way etc. But then I remember it's only happening because someone's in severe trouble in the first place so it's like "humanity is awesome...oh something not good is happening"

I have this habit I copied off the book "Heart" by Edmondo De Amicis[0] - whenever I hear an ambulance approaching, sirens on, I'll take my hat and earphones off, pausing for a moment as a sign of respect. Respect for the person in trouble, for the people trying to save them, and for the system that allows this to happen.

Thank you 'PuffinBlue and 'goodells for bringing this observation up. The civilization our predecessors built and to which we have privilege of contributing is, for all its failings, truly miraculous.

--

[0] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heart_(novel)

Re: Simone Giertz – Back from brain surgery [video]

#57

Post by WhompingWindows » Thu, Jul 19, 2018, 3:35 PM UTC

bootloop wrote: post #54

So this country doesn't make enough money to be able to keep some unlucky people alive without throwing them or their family into poverty? Or is it simply that nobody cares for anybody else as long as you are better off then them?

I believe it is highly American to believe in self-sufficiency and to minimize the role of luck in success or failure. Whether we go back to the Protestant work ethic, the Puritan sensibility, gold rushes, unfettered capitalism, the Gilded Age, and our current second gilded age, to me it is clear that caring for others is a secondary concern for many Americans. Just look at the "makers/takers" model of our populace put forward by the top current lawmakers. In this framework, sick people are takers and capitalists are makers.

Re: Simone Giertz – Back from brain surgery [video]

#58

Post by cptskippy » Thu, Jul 19, 2018, 3:36 PM UTC

cobookman wrote: post #40

bloopernova wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> added stress of the huge bills I really wish people would talk about these sorts of soft costs more often. I grew up in the UK, moved to the USA in my mid 20s. While growing up, my parents divorced and my mother had to take care of me and a sibling. All 3 of us had medical conditions that needed regular care/checkups. Not once did my mum ever spend hours on the phone chasing down bills or insurance rejections. We n…

On the flip side people living in socialized healthcare Countries have other stresses. In the usa my insurance lets me go to 10 doctors for differing opinions. I can go straight to a specialist. When I need non urgent surgery it's scheduled with a few weeks instead of months.

> my insurance

Not all insurances are equal, you or your employer are paying for that privileged and can obviously afford it.

You should price out insurance options for a minimum wage job and compare it to your own to see just how lucky you are.

> I can go straight to a specialist.

Cadillac insurance, PPO? Most people have HMOs which don't allow that.

In socialized medicine doctors usually aren't profit driven and their job/salary are dependent on the level of care they provide and not the number of patients they churn through.

Re: Simone Giertz – Back from brain surgery [video]

#59

Post by danbee » Thu, Jul 19, 2018, 3:38 PM UTC

cptskippy wrote: post #12

tonysdg wrote: post #2

So glad to see Simone back on her feet. The sh y robot nation needs its queen! As for that bill -- I'm curious: is there any resource I can look up to see how much of that the average Medicare/Medicaid/private insurance plan pays? I ask because I just had two teeth repaired after a bike accident and it'll cost me ~$100 after insurance covers the other ~$500. By that ratio, she'd be looking at ~$38,000 bill.

Because of the way insurance tends to work in America, care providers tend to throw shit at the wall to see what sticks. In other words the first bill is always an outrageous amount of charges that may or may not be valid. Additionally there's something called a negotiated rate that an insurer has with the care provider, usually the care provider's bill does not show this rate but rater some fiction that not even tho…

Adam Ruins Everything did an episode on this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CeDOQpfaUc8

Re: Simone Giertz – Back from brain surgery [video]

#60

Post by TeMPOraL » Thu, Jul 19, 2018, 3:38 PM UTC

WhompingWindows wrote: post #57

bootloop wrote: post #54

So this country doesn't make enough money to be able to keep some unlucky people alive without throwing them or their family into poverty? Or is it simply that nobody cares for anybody else as long as you are better off then them?

I believe it is highly American to believe in self-sufficiency and to minimize the role of luck in success or failure. Whether we go back to the Protestant work ethic, the Puritan sensibility, gold rushes, unfettered capitalism, the Gilded Age, and our current second gilded age, to me it is clear that caring for others is a secondary concern for many Americans. Just look at the "makers/takers" model of our populace p…

> to believe in self-sufficiency and to minimize the role of luck in success or failure.

I think that, frankly, those two are in opposition to one another. Self-sufficiency at scale is a game of numbers and luck; systems of thinking that try to put more emphasis on mutual support and shared responsibility for success seem to work more towards eliminating luck as a factor.