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What is the PDF format good for? Nothing (2006)

complang.tuwien.ac.at

21–30 of 33 posts

Re: What is the PDF format good for? Nothing (2006)

#21
post #4

I happen to work in an industry (intl shipping) where we scan billions of PDF daily, and I have no clue, how would we share docs with all the parties involved ... 'sanely' ... if it were not for PDF, TIFF isn't good either .. PDF docs are like 3kb-10kb ... other than physical scan of papers ... however 'generated PDF docs' are 5kb at best.

It's scary how differently PDFs can be output depending on the exporter. I have some Word docs for user and installation guides that can be 100% larger depending on whether the content writer saves it as PDF, exports it as PDF, or prints the document to a PDF.

Not really. Each of those PDFs has a different intent and thus a different amount of metadata embedded it in.

Re: What is the PDF format good for? Nothing (2006)

#22
21 years after, nobody cares about postscript.

This ends up being a good example of how decent tech fails if not backed up by reasonable commercial strategy. In the world we live in, it's not enough to be good - heck, you don't even need to be good at anything, just be good at marketing it.

Re: What is the PDF format good for? Nothing (2006)

#23
post #20

This post - and every technical post on the internet - needs a date stamp. Please never blog or post anything without putting a date on it.

In counterpoint: please look at Last-Modified headers.

Because they are not always present, not convenient, and don't necessarily reflect the actual date when the content was written / updated. Maybe a file was copied and the modification time changed although the content on the page didn't. Maybe the author fixed a spelling mistake 10 years later but didn't update anything else.

I want a human-decided, human-readable date on the page for the same reason I want a human-readable headline. For a technical post, they're about equally important, and should not require examining protocol headers to determine.

Re: What is the PDF format good for? Nothing (2006)

#24
post #11

So one of the common uses for pdf is filling in digital forms, typically published by your government. I didnt even see this addressed in the gigantic rant by author. Instead they complained about Actobat Reader for DOS is slow and other random anecdotial evidence, none which imo supports his claim that pdf is good for nothing.

What's the benefit of PDF forms over HTML forms? Other than being able to share the "digital" and dead-tree designs, which may be an advantage for someone, but not for the person filling it in.

The benefit is you can print the pdf form and fill in with paper (such as handing out the printed doc at the reception), or you can fill in on your computer and print the result, preserving page layout.

Re: What is the PDF format good for? Nothing (2006)

#25
post #24
post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's the benefit of PDF forms over HTML forms? Other than being able to share the "digital" and dead-tree designs, which may be an advantage for someone, but not for the person filling it in.

The benefit is you can print the pdf form and fill in with paper (such as handing out the printed doc at the reception), or you can fill in on your computer and print the result, preserving page layout.

Also, you may need a signature on the document which you would do by hand, while filling out the other fields sith keyboard.

Re: What is the PDF format good for? Nothing (2006)

#26

"...Acrobat reader for DOS that I have is dog slow..." We're done here.

Adobe reader was always dog slow across all platforms, compared to alternative PDF readers.

And his other points are still valid, even more so now that smartphones are everywhere. Platform should be able to adapt content to best utilize resources (screen size). See how e-books are not published in PDF format. E-book readers mostly support PDFs, but it's painful experience to actually read through them.

Re: What is the PDF format good for? Nothing (2006)

#27

21 years after, nobody cares about postscript. This ends up being a good example of how decent tech fails if not backed up by reasonable commercial strategy. In the world we live in, it's not enough to be good - heck, you don't even need to be good at anything, just be good at marketing it.

> 21 years after, nobody cares about postscript.

Except most of the print trade.

Re: What is the PDF format good for? Nothing (2006)

#28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's scary how differently PDFs can be output depending on the exporter. I have some Word docs for user and installation guides that can be 100% larger depending on whether the content writer saves it as PDF, exports it as PDF, or prints the document to a PDF.

Not really. Each of those PDFs has a different intent and thus a different amount of metadata embedded it in.

For the purposes of what we're doing with them, we don't care about any of that, however. The real answer would be to automate the process, so people don't have to think and have the opportunity to do it wrongly, it just happens, but it's hasn't been high enough priority to bother with getting right.

Re: What is the PDF format good for? Nothing (2006)

#29

21 years after, nobody cares about postscript. This ends up being a good example of how decent tech fails if not backed up by reasonable commercial strategy. In the world we live in, it's not enough to be good - heck, you don't even need to be good at anything, just be good at marketing it.

I'm not sure. "Decent tech" failed because it wasn't made available on different architectures in a decent form. Then one architecture took off, and left Tex behind (DOS/Windows). There was another in an area where typesetting mattered (Mac OS X) and that one, too, did not have "Decent tech" support. Even though the open source movement probably put in way more total effort in screen readers and typesetters than Adobe ever did into Pdf ... there was never a coherent strategy, and everybody did what this article tries to advocate :

let's make one tex distro that's a bit better at screen reading. One that's a bit better at math typesetting. One that can also contain C programs, along with text. One that has graphs.

Let's all make them with zero integration and each of them only working on one distro, one platform (because that one's the best).

Despite what this article claims, nobody ever tried to do the minimum necessary to make the suggested solutions succeed. Instead, there was infighting and perfectionism in tiny details with zero care for the global picture.

This is the issue with academici. Call it "depth first" development vs "breadth first" development. If you want large scale uptake, commercials success and usefullness for many people, obviously the correct strategy is breath first : well-supported few-problems many-usecase easy-to-use kinda-basic software. Then, over a LOT of time, make it less basic.

The way to succeed in academici is to go depth first. Make the state of the art neural network for distinguishing left-handed pomeranians from mostly-left-but-sometimes-abidextrous pomeranians by 0.005% ? Guaranteed publication ! 20 followup papers ! Great hero ! Speaker invites across the globe ! Who's ever going to use it ? Let's nod politely and say "many other academici".

Re: What is the PDF format good for? Nothing (2006)

#30
PDF is mostly a subset of Postscript. It improves on Postscript in terms of speed and security.

In contrast to Postscript, it is not a Turing-complete programming language. What's left is a bunch of commands placing graphics objects on pages.

That means PDF viewers cannot be DoSed in an obvious way by placing infinite loops in the document.

It also means that any page in a document can be directly rendered, without rendering the rest of the document first. That's not possible with Postscript, because Postscript documents are programs that need to executed from the start.

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