Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Zuckerberg defends right of Holocaust deniers to be heard on Facebook

marketwatch.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

11–20 of 20 posts

Re: Zuckerberg defends right of Holocaust deniers to be heard on Facebook

#11

Post by ljw1001 »

arcsin wrote: post #4

It's remarkable to me that people think this is a bad thing. I feel like everyone agreed freedom of speech is a good thing until one day I woke up and they didn't. I don't mean whether or not it would be unconstitutional to censor certain topics on facebook. But facebook is a one of the largest communication platforms today. It's bad enough that Zuckerberg actually has the power to decide what can and can't be commun…

What about the cases outside the US where politically-motivated fake stories have led to innocent people being murdered by mobs? That must seem like "a bad thing" to the victims.

I hear what you're saying, but Facebook (and good-forbid, Twitter) are profit-making enterprises, governed by all sorts of rules. Free speech has never meant that you can do or say whatever you want, wherever you want. It means you can speak or write your thoughts without going to jail. That's all it has ever meant.

EDIT: To be even more clear,

-you can't hold-forth in a synagogue about how evil Jews are, and wouldn't expect to.

-You can't do it in your office, either, and expect to keep your job.

-You can't use the free speech argument to get responsible news organizations to publish your demonstrably false beliefs.

If Facebook is really such an important cultural resource that free speech matters there, they should ensure they're actually doing good on-balance in important matters.

Re: Zuckerberg defends right of Holocaust deniers to be heard on Facebook

#12

Post by SamReidHughes »

crazydoggers wrote: post #10
arcsin wrote: post #4

It's remarkable to me that people think this is a bad thing. I feel like everyone agreed freedom of speech is a good thing until one day I woke up and they didn't. I don't mean whether or not it would be unconstitutional to censor certain topics on facebook. But facebook is a one of the largest communication platforms today. It's bad enough that Zuckerberg actually has the power to decide what can and can't be commun…

I think the issue that we are all grappling with is the amount, speed of dissemination, reach, and substance of all the speech that Facebook allows is something humanity has never grappled with. We generally agree that speech should be free, but obviously we put limits on it. For instance we do not allow yelling “fire” in a crowded theater. The reason is that people are directly harmed by that speech, and it has no u…

Obviously we should -- particularly for people that advocate for abortion, whose voices need to be suppressed. The cost of their speech is too high.

Re: Zuckerberg defends right of Holocaust deniers to be heard on Facebook

#13

Post by ljw1001 »

exabrial wrote: post #7

Some people will say stupid things with their freedom of expression. They're still entitled to their freedoms, lest we become like them. This breaks my heart that we have to have these conversations.

What makes you think that freedom of expression means more than you can say what you want without going to jail?

It doesn't mean people have to give you a platform to spread propaganda, and it never has. Want to start a social network for holocaust deniers? Go right ahead.

Re: Zuckerberg defends right of Holocaust deniers to be heard on Facebook

#14

Post by ljw1001 »

phobosdeimos wrote: post #8

Not his call, Facebook has to follow the law. If I were him I would stop this freedom of expression stuff: nobody cares. Users don't actually want the crazies, religious nutjobs and political fighting. It almost killed Reddit and Twitter.

The extremists are what keep Reddit and Twitter in business. People find all the fighting entertaining. This has much more to do with money than with human rights.

Re: Zuckerberg defends right of Holocaust deniers to be heard on Facebook

#15

Post by exabrial »

ljw1001 wrote: post #13
exabrial wrote: post #7

Some people will say stupid things with their freedom of expression. They're still entitled to their freedoms, lest we become like them. This breaks my heart that we have to have these conversations.

What makes you think that freedom of expression means more than you can say what you want without going to jail? It doesn't mean people have to give you a platform to spread propaganda, and it never has. Want to start a social network for holocaust deniers? Go right ahead.

Because... that's literally what it means.

The internet is not a crowded theater. It's just text on a screen.

Re: Zuckerberg defends right of Holocaust deniers to be heard on Facebook

#16

Post by ljw1001 »

exabrial wrote: post #15
ljw1001 wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What makes you think that freedom of expression means more than you can say what you want without going to jail? It doesn't mean people have to give you a platform to spread propaganda, and it never has. Want to start a social network for holocaust deniers? Go right ahead.

Because... that's literally what it means . The internet is not a crowded theater. It's just text on a screen.

No. That's not what it means.

Facebook is a private enterprise. It's not the Internet. You want to spout hate on the internet, fine. Get a server and host your pages. Does Facebook have to let you do it on their site? No.

You may have to shout fire in a crowded theater to get arrested, but you can and probably will get kicked out for standing up and screaming about niggers and kikes. That's how civilization works.

Re: Zuckerberg defends right of Holocaust deniers to be heard on Facebook

#17

Post by dmode »

SamReidHughes wrote: post #12
crazydoggers wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the issue that we are all grappling with is the amount, speed of dissemination, reach, and substance of all the speech that Facebook allows is something humanity has never grappled with. We generally agree that speech should be free, but obviously we put limits on it. For instance we do not allow yelling “fire” in a crowded theater. The reason is that people are directly harmed by that speech, and it has no u…

Obviously we should -- particularly for people that advocate for abortion, whose voices need to be suppressed. The cost of their speech is too high.

[flagged]

Re: Zuckerberg defends right of Holocaust deniers to be heard on Facebook

#18

Post by exabrial »

ljw1001 wrote: post #16
exabrial wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because... that's literally what it means . The internet is not a crowded theater. It's just text on a screen.

No. That's not what it means. Facebook is a private enterprise. It's not the Internet. You want to spout hate on the internet, fine. Get a server and host your pages. Does Facebook have to let you do it on their site? No. You may have to shout fire in a crowded theater to get arrested, but you can and probably will get kicked out for standing up and screaming about niggers and kikes. That's how civilization works.

Literally a straw man attack. Facebook is a private platform and they can do whatever they want with their business. I was speaking specifically about freedom of expression.

Re: Zuckerberg defends right of Holocaust deniers to be heard on Facebook

#19

Post by SamReidHughes »

dmode wrote: post #17
SamReidHughes wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Obviously we should -- particularly for people that advocate for abortion, whose voices need to be suppressed. The cost of their speech is too high.

[flagged]

Abortion propaganda incites murder, so clearly anybody spreading it should be locked up. You can't just dehumanize an entire subset of the population.

Re: Zuckerberg defends right of Holocaust deniers to be heard on Facebook

#20

Post by Zanni »

SamReidHughes wrote: post #12
crazydoggers wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the issue that we are all grappling with is the amount, speed of dissemination, reach, and substance of all the speech that Facebook allows is something humanity has never grappled with. We generally agree that speech should be free, but obviously we put limits on it. For instance we do not allow yelling “fire” in a crowded theater. The reason is that people are directly harmed by that speech, and it has no u…

Obviously we should -- particularly for people that advocate for abortion, whose voices need to be suppressed. The cost of their speech is too high.

This is a brilliant comment that shouldn't be down voted, whatever side of the abortion debate you might be on. It exactly highlights the danger of suppressing free speech. While you'd be hard pressed to find reasonable people that deny the Holocaust, there are plenty of emotionally-charged political debates where the numbers are less lopsided. Shortsighted people might want Facebook suppressing that "hate speech" as long as it breaks their way, but what about when it doesn't?
Post reply on HN