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‘Star Citizen’ Court Case Reveals the Messy Reality of Crowdfunding a $200M Game

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141–150 of 335 posts

Re: ‘Star Citizen’ Court Case Reveals the Messy Reality of Crowdfunding a $200M Game

#141

So what other good single player space sims are out there today? I'm not an MMO person. The last good one I played was Strike Suit Zero/Infinity. Back in the day I played Wing Command I, II, III, IV and Prophecy (still have many of them on CD). I was also a big fan of TIE Fighter/X-Wing. It seems like this genre has stagnated quite a bite in the past few years, or has gone entirely MMO. Is anything doing anything new…

Take a look at Everspace

Re: ‘Star Citizen’ Court Case Reveals the Messy Reality of Crowdfunding a $200M Game

#142

I was 25 when I backed this game. Not only am I hugely disappointed in the waterfall approach, and feature creep that pushed this over the edge. But I am 33 today! My desire to play MMOs has also slowly evaporated.

8 years already? Wow... Luckily I didn't backe at all. I was really tempted though.

At that time all the old guys made "one last game" and failed horribly.

I figured this game will fail too.

Re: ‘Star Citizen’ Court Case Reveals the Messy Reality of Crowdfunding a $200M Game

#143
post #112

He lost because of a forced arbitration clause. This massive privatization of justice where any boilerplate service or product now comes with forced arbitration is making my blood boil. The justice system should always be an option when arbitration fails, and arbitration should take no more than a reasonable time to fail (say, two weeks for this $5000 amount). The whole point of a small claims court is to handle such…

I'm more disturbed by the parts of the article which say that he never agreed to a forced arbitration clause in the first place because it wasn't in the ToS when he paid, but the judge decided to go with the later ToS anyway: > According to Lord, the terms of service when he made the initial pledge aren’t the same terms of service they are today. The original terms of service, according to RSI’s own records, make no…

The only thing to note there is the "according to Lord" part. While I have no reason to doubt him, it seems so counter-intuitive for the judge to make that decision that we should probably get an additional source.

Re: ‘Star Citizen’ Court Case Reveals the Messy Reality of Crowdfunding a $200M Game

#144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And this is the unfortunate problem with the agile “release an MVP and iterate” approach when talking about a game. Unlike a SaaS product that might initially solve a problem, a game needs to be compelling, make a good first impression, and be fun, all out of the gate, to retain player interest. The Early Access model has continued to fail because people try the early version, dislike it (because it isn’t finished),…

I think that's because many early access developers don't put enough focus on the "Viable" aspect, and focus too hard on "Minimum". For a game to be viable it should express its core gameplay features in a compelling way. Iteration should just be building additional content on top of that, or building new modules that live on top of the core (like the FPS aspects of Star Citizen arguably should be).

True but I'd say it's that minimum and viable are much closer to the final product with games making the whole notion less useful.

Re: ‘Star Citizen’ Court Case Reveals the Messy Reality of Crowdfunding a $200M Game

#145
post #2

I pledged a fraction of this fellow's total in Star Citizen, probably the lowest tier that would result in a digital copy of the game once complete. I was after a modern Privateer reboot, essentially, and figured it was worth the gamble. I haven't followed the development with anything more than a casual, occasional glance and accompanying eye-roll. I doubt I'll ever see anything come of it. A shame, not necessarily…

The game he always wanted to make, he said. How can you creep from there?

Re: ‘Star Citizen’ Court Case Reveals the Messy Reality of Crowdfunding a $200M Game

#146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is especially important, and I don't see anyone else here (at the moment of posting this) calling this out. This is a disastrous precedent to set for consumers, because it means that even though you are agreeing to terms on the date of the sale, those same terms of the sale can be changed on a moments notice and still affect you, without your knowledge or consent. It's a shame that he has to keep fighting this,…

In other words if ToS can be changed retroactively, it's a wildcard agreement. Is there even a point in reading it?

Frankly that should make it entirely unenforceable. I’m very confused by the judges choice here, other than “it’s too hard and it’s easier to apply it here” which is a pretty crappy standard.

Re: ‘Star Citizen’ Court Case Reveals the Messy Reality of Crowdfunding a $200M Game

#147
post #4

Meanwhile, No Mans Sky, the underdog-turn-most-hated-turn-underdog-again game is releasing full multiplayer free upgrade next week. They engineered a PR disaster for themselves but have been adding great features at a slow steady pace, which is exactly how it should be done.

It still looks an incredibly boring and pointless procedural generation tech showcase even in the latest trailer.

Re: ‘Star Citizen’ Court Case Reveals the Messy Reality of Crowdfunding a $200M Game

#148
post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most AAA do a game in 2-3years, a decade is not the norm, and for game that took 10years it's not a team that work on that for that long but just a couple of people.

Should I have given another example? Red Dead Redemption series can be another[1]. Not quite a decade, but close to. Also, I never said "most". 1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Dead

They weren't working on development for a decade though. It was a decade between games, with a large amount of time between them when no development took place. Same with Diablo.

Re: ‘Star Citizen’ Court Case Reveals the Messy Reality of Crowdfunding a $200M Game

#149
Cases like these are the reasons why common law grand juries should be utilized. Done correctly, they can serve as a check and balance against institutionalized judicial corruption that operates federally divorced from the people it is supposed to serve.

Re: ‘Star Citizen’ Court Case Reveals the Messy Reality of Crowdfunding a $200M Game

#150
post #3

Wrapping every purchase in a binding arbitration agreement is absurd. It completely defangs consumer protection laws.

That's the point of modern mandatory binding arbitration. It removes consumer protections and liability laws.* It removes all laws but the arbitration. To be suckered into one is to lose all protection under the law.*

* Per Hall Street Associates, L.L.C. v. Mattel, Inc. the courts have decided that manifest disregard for the law is not enough to vacate or modify arbitration. Thus the law no longer applies in the face of arbitration. Due to federal supremacy, all state laws are meaningless in the face of mandatory binding arbitration. All state constitutions are meaningless in the face of arbitration. You can and will be bound to infinite civil liability at the whims of an arbiter that does not have to decide based on law or even upon the dispute at hand.

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