Riot Games Approach to Anti-Cheat • Hacker News Board

Re: Riot Games Approach to Anti-Cheat

#351

Post by ShaneWilton » Wed, Jul 18, 2018, 8:32 AM UTC

madjam002 wrote: post #53

pythonaut_16 wrote: post #17

I'd love to see a game where cheating and scripting is the primary means of gameplay. By default the game would present a very simple UI but players would be encouraged to write and share scripts enabling varying levels and types of functionality. As a game developer your job then would be to write interesting enough systems for players to exploit to come up with interesting gameplay. I can imagine a scenario where d…

Reminds me of my childhood playing ROBLOX on various Script Builder games where users on the server could script with Lua. It was basically a race to who could script admin commands and completely own the server.

I got my start with computers hacking ROBLOX as a kid! We probably met each other. I went by Shanethe13 / Aeacus back then. If that rings a bell, you should hit me up :)

I actually work in cybersecurity now, directly as a result of ROBLOX. Shedletsky came across some of my work a few months ago, and we reconnected over dinner. It's a crazy small world sometimes.

Re: Riot Games Approach to Anti-Cheat

#352

Post by crottypeter » Wed, Jul 18, 2018, 8:37 AM UTC

benswieskowski wrote: post #315

exgamedev wrote: post #212

Back when I worked in games we would detect cheaters and then shadow ban. Quarantine them by only matching them into games with other cheaters. You may still have to ban them from certain elements of your game, like player economies (auction house, etc). But the more legitimate their experience looks the better. The idea is that instead of fully banning them and triggering the next iteration of the arms race, you tra…

Did you consider the possibility of false positives? Even the most modern and well considered justice system runs into this issue. Or is this not possible when detecting video game cheaters?

False positives are certainly possible. My office has an hour allotted to gaming on Friday afternoons. There have been occasions when TF2 kicked all players connecting from Linux clients (approx 50% of us).

Re: Riot Games Approach to Anti-Cheat

#353

Post by jlengrand » Wed, Jul 18, 2018, 8:40 AM UTC

Teknoman117 wrote: post #317

I have mixed feelings about anti-cheat, especially in the last few years. A lot of them are getting rather intrusive. Take Player Unknown's Battlegrounds for instance, which uses BattlEye. It actually injects a kernel mode driver into Windows that spies on whatever else your system is doing and exfiltrates unknown data in the name of "guaranteeing a fair game experience." I didn't even realize that this is what it wa…

I wouldn't take PUBG as a compelling example. Most of what they do is WTF IMHO. The game is famous for being laggy, buggy, crashy, and the servers down often. They also have a history of making very strange technilogical and features choices.

There is a reason the hype has gone down quite a bit...

Still sounds very wrong what they are doing though.

Re: Riot Games Approach to Anti-Cheat

#354

Post by Grangar » Wed, Jul 18, 2018, 8:44 AM UTC

yadaeno wrote: post #263

Some of this is pure evil. > We block this very common technique by making sure that when the value is changed by taking damage, the value is actually moved as well. > To introduce more entropy, we also made sure that each value uses slightly different encryption. > At compile time, a randomly selected type of anti-debug check is inserted into each of the locations where a check was requested in the code. Ive always…

What's so evil about that?

Re: Riot Games Approach to Anti-Cheat

#355

Post by vladimirralev » Wed, Jul 18, 2018, 8:44 AM UTC

SXX wrote: post #339

stcredzero wrote: post #243

Here's my project's approach to Anti-Cheat. 1, 2, 3) Everything on the server. Server's version always wins. Server is the authoritative source. Granted, I have a mathematical advantage in the game's particular movement mechanics which makes this easy to get away with. The other game mechanics are also designed with facilitating this in mind. Corollary: The client is almost nothing and trusted with nothing. It's pret…

Very unfortunately what you explain here only work for very specific type of gameplay. For instance almost nothing works when you need to secure first-person shooter simply because it's skill-based gameplay where it's also very easy to cheat for the bot.

Nvidia has geforce now http://www.nvidia.com/object/cloud-gaming.html and people with good internet connection have been able to play FPS games. Granted, the latency and the FPS are worse than a local game, but surprisingly it is unnoticeable to many people.

Re: Riot Games Approach to Anti-Cheat

#356

Post by androsyang » Wed, Jul 18, 2018, 8:46 AM UTC

jonjojr wrote: post #322

lucb1e wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Reason for downvote: you seem to have no clue about blockchain or cheater.dll whatsoever.

Blockchain is all I work on and you seem to not understand my suggestion. cheater.dll needs to be loaded in memory along with the game. Correct, right? If the original build of the game has already generated an encryption key that is stored on a server or a distributed ledger using your account, then tampering with the origonal build in memory will result in generating and invalod key thus changing the ledger or the…

Nani the fuck

Re: Riot Games Approach to Anti-Cheat

#357

Post by nounaut » Wed, Jul 18, 2018, 8:53 AM UTC

jlengrand wrote: post #353

Teknoman117 wrote: post #317

I have mixed feelings about anti-cheat, especially in the last few years. A lot of them are getting rather intrusive. Take Player Unknown's Battlegrounds for instance, which uses BattlEye. It actually injects a kernel mode driver into Windows that spies on whatever else your system is doing and exfiltrates unknown data in the name of "guaranteeing a fair game experience." I didn't even realize that this is what it wa…

I wouldn't take PUBG as a compelling example. Most of what they do is WTF IMHO. The game is famous for being laggy, buggy, crashy, and the servers down often. They also have a history of making very strange technilogical and features choices. There is a reason the hype has gone down quite a bit... Still sounds very wrong what they are doing though.

I'm not entirely sure how this works but I would think the developers of BattlEye decides and develops what it reacts to and not the PUBG developers? Why else would you use a third party solution?

Re: Riot Games Approach to Anti-Cheat

#358

Post by chupasaurus » Wed, Jul 18, 2018, 8:57 AM UTC

chlvsl wrote: post #93

swanson wrote: post #2

I wonder if Riot would consider building the scripting UI they show into some kind of training mode. It's a bit like the argument that no one would pirate if they content was easy to get for a reasonable price. If players could train with the spell range circles, skill shot path projection, last hit helpers, etc in a sanctioned way, I wonder how much this would remove the desire to seek out the cheating programs. Edi…

Dota has this as well.

Dota 2. And Valve made 2 big swings of banhammer for using addons which implemented that (turret ranges to be precise) and model change for trees to become mushrooms (sound silly, but that way the path between them is easier to see).

Re: Riot Games Approach to Anti-Cheat

#359

Post by chupasaurus » Wed, Jul 18, 2018, 9:04 AM UTC

s73v3r_ wrote: post #138

mikec3010 wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah the downvote has become the "disagree" button sadly. I remember playing GTA-V on PS3 and early on people figured out some sort of (seemingly) underflow attack where they got billions of in-game cash, traded and gave it away, and were eventually wrangled in by the mods. I wasn't harmed by this, I thought it was ingenious of whoever found it, and got a good chuckle at the moral judgements the pregame messages disp…

You're comparing things in a single player game to things in a highly competitive multiplayer game. Not the same at all.

GTA V's online mod is the reason why it's still on 5th place by current users in Steam. R* is selling virtual cash for it, so this type of cheating is hitting their revenue.

Re: Riot Games Approach to Anti-Cheat

#360

Post by chupasaurus » Wed, Jul 18, 2018, 9:06 AM UTC

shmerl wrote: post #95

Does it hinder Linux gamers who are using Wine? A lot of such anti-cheats can't figure out when Wine is used and ban Linux users. Some also ban custom D3D implementations like DXVK even if they are really correctly implementing the API.

Blizzard had a huge banwave for users running SC2 WoL under Wine.