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Should We Loosen the Restrictions on Psychedelics?

blogs.scientificamerican.com

21–30 of 199 posts

Re: Should We Loosen the Restrictions on Psychedelics?

#21

The headline's question should really be reframed to question the validity of these restrictions in the first place. I'm not a user of any of these sorts of substances, nor condone them, but there's zero reason for a free country to police personal use of such things. Sure, driving under the influence should be policed as a safety hazard, showing up to work out of your gourd should still get you fired, etc. But there…

"but there's zero reason for a free country to police personal use of such things." There are a lot of reasons. The people on HN and their social circles are waaay on the high end of conscientiousness. They have nary any risk from something like LSD for the most part. But - wide open and fairly unregulated use? Available at the corner store? So many types will try it, more than a few times. Younger kids will definite…

Sure, just look at the positive pressure I mentioned in the end of my post. If we took all the money spent in the police, courts, & prisons for non-violent drug use offenses, and funded totally free to use, no questions asked, walk-in rehab programs, I think that would be both a massive financial and massive cultural benefit. Throw in awareness programs, counseling, poverty-area involvement, etc, and you'd still be way in the black.

Regulating substances for purchase by minors is something that's well understood and much more agreeable. Getting it into stores and away from pushers (which can still be criminalized, just not the users) makes it much more manageable for the problem cases, and much more available for any beneficial cases (self-medication, etc).

Characterizing that everybody's going to start using hard drugs if they're decriminalized is really kind of jumping off the handle, too. People have few barriers to hard drug access as it is, where this problem affects us the most. Many value their mental & financial state and have seen too many negative examples already and abstain, even if they're a classified high-risk sort of person. Others use whatever they can get a hold of, and legislation is irrelevant to their use. Yet others dabble or use sparingly, like your bad trip example. It's a personal choice, not a legal one, that's already been made millions of times over.

Besides, consuming junk food, watching TV, internet use, etc, have none of these usage laws while having addictive and society-wide negative effects, too. The question remains why other behaviors "must" be regulated while these aren't.

Re: Should We Loosen the Restrictions on Psychedelics?

#22
Yes, a great look into some of them is on Hamilton's Pharmacopeia on VICELAND [1] and early version of the show on Youtube [2] that delves into many of psychedelics and other drugs. Hamilton Morris does the show and is the son of Errol Morris who is a great documentary filmmaker. The documentary show takes an honest look at the origins, stories and science of substances from a scientific objective point of view.

The point across many of the episodes is that locking up drugs in the immutable prison of the Controlled Substances scheduling is possibly locking up cures that might be useful down the line, besides the obvious issue of the state telling people what they can and can't put in their body, the drug wars are a unnecessary violence and costly enforcement over a health matter.

The war on vegetables and plants should end and this generation should do it. Adults are responsible enough to know what they put in their body and for the ones that have trouble with addiction, the focus should be on healthcare not executive criminal force that is very costly in funds and possible uses of drugs that are locked up in the prison of the Controlled Substances Act as a controlled substance. In a free country you are responsible for yourself, the state should back off on drugs because they are more dangerous illegal than legal due to black markets, cartels, legal issues harsher than the drug and more.

Due to the hard line, we miss out on scientific health advantages of these drugs and people aim to make more synthetics that mimic them that may be more harmful than the original with unknown effects.

Unfortunately it looks like the US is doubling down on the drug war with the new Schedule A that allows them to put on biologically similar drugs and synthetics on the list with SITSA [3].

My take is that drugs should be legal or at a minimum entirely decriminalized, there should be substance warnings but ultimately the liability of the user taking the drug is on the user, not a doctor. The only time a producer should get in legal issues is when they are selling what isn't on the label just like with food. A big problem with overdoses and drug deaths is due to people getting the wrong substance, for instance fentanyl because it is cheaper in other opioids. The hardline of putting liability on the doctors and pharma companies is also leading to patients looking for alternatives after their doctor stops their prescription for fear of legal issues, what follows is where most overdoses and trouble happens as there is no addiction help after even legal use of drugs. The hardline on opioids even further exacerbate the problem.

We need a new Bill of Rights amendment for Right to Body to do this. This is a health issue not a criminal one and it is too costly to possible health advances to lock up helpful chemical configurations that need more study. We need a Right to Body amendment at some point to get the state out of it and make drugs a health related matter not a criminal one.

The Controlled Substances Act is flawed because of the locked and immutable nature of it, besides the fact that the drug wars are a failure and it is a health issue not a criminal one.

Any drug on the CSA should have to be re-proven every year to be medically dangerous to be kept on the list.

The problem is that once drugs get classified as a controlled substance, it is very difficult to get them out because neither the public nor legislature can easily remove it. The CSA list is managed entirely wrong. The CSA was setup to target certain dissidents initially by Nixon, it is nearly criminal that the drug war is ran by an organization that is untouchable and maintained by the enforcer not the health institutions.

The CSA should be completely abolished or recreated with expiring classifications, and the FDA can make recommendations on safety but then it is up to the people to decide what they do with their bodies with the liability on them.

Marijuana is an example where the Controlled Substances Act harms medical uses of drugs on the list, if is very difficult to change it even with 93% medical marijuana support [4] and 64% recreational marijuana support [5] in the US. It is nearly criminal that marijuana/cannabis, psilocybin mushrooms, LSD, and other drugs and psychedelics that help people which are also safer than most drugs and alcohol, based on the user themselves rather than what the state says, are criminal and not medical.

[1] https://www.hulu.com/hamiltons-pharmacopeia

[2] https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLDbSvEZka6GH9XhvsMrwH...

[3] https://www.congress.gov/bill/115th-congress/house-bill/2851

[4] http://thehill.com/homenews/news/385018-poll-support-for-leg...

[5] https://news.gallup.com/poll/221018/record-high-support-lega...

Re: Should We Loosen the Restrictions on Psychedelics?

#23

The headline's question should really be reframed to question the validity of these restrictions in the first place. I'm not a user of any of these sorts of substances, nor condone them, but there's zero reason for a free country to police personal use of such things. Sure, driving under the influence should be policed as a safety hazard, showing up to work out of your gourd should still get you fired, etc. But there…

"but there's zero reason for a free country to police personal use of such things." There are a lot of reasons. The people on HN and their social circles are waaay on the high end of conscientiousness. They have nary any risk from something like LSD for the most part. But - wide open and fairly unregulated use? Available at the corner store? So many types will try it, more than a few times. Younger kids will definite…

You said regulations. Regulations are set after there is a problem. In case of psychedelics, it is a law.

If there is a problem, the regulation may be changed, and additional measures taken to get rid of it.

The main issue with these laws is that they are speculative. It is actually very likely that nothing would change much if at all, except number of arrests and related costs. Oh and reduced cut for the black market.

Psychedelics have been available and used throughout history with few problems in ritual settings. (As opposed to drugs like opium, tobacco or alcohol which have always been one with few exceptions yet are less regulated.)

"Think of the children" is a cheap shot that can be used to set any number of odious laws. Show evidence of harm and how the law helps with it.

The real reason psychedelics were banned in the US is to have a reason to jail politically inconvenient people in Vietnam era and bunch of the world has followed the leader.

Re: Should We Loosen the Restrictions on Psychedelics?

#24

I don’t think it will get the attention of marijuana, but I have hope we will legalize them again. Most psychedelic drugs are very niche. Telling someone you’ve smoked pot or telling someone you’ve taken 2 hits of LSD generate very different reactions. The stigma around it will have trouble wearing off because psychedelics are such an unknown. Most people don’t do them but have heard about people having bad experienc…

If you think the reaction from telling people you've dropped acid is weird, just wait until you see the reaction when you say that you enjoy the odd spot of ketamine!

I think that for most people, the closest experience they've ever had with LSD or other psychedelics is the movies, where they're portrayed as this wacky drug that makes you see dragons and other weird shit. They've all heard stories about how someone dropped a tab and their trip never ended or how they became possessed by demons or some other urban myth that they heard from someone years ago.

Re: Should We Loosen the Restrictions on Psychedelics?

#25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"but there's zero reason for a free country to police personal use of such things." There are a lot of reasons. The people on HN and their social circles are waaay on the high end of conscientiousness. They have nary any risk from something like LSD for the most part. But - wide open and fairly unregulated use? Available at the corner store? So many types will try it, more than a few times. Younger kids will definite…

Sure, just look at the positive pressure I mentioned in the end of my post. If we took all the money spent in the police, courts, & prisons for non-violent drug use offenses, and funded totally free to use, no questions asked, walk-in rehab programs, I think that would be both a massive financial and massive cultural benefit. Throw in awareness programs, counseling, poverty-area involvement, etc, and you'd still be w…

Growing up in Holland it was very difficult to get weed as a kid, because everyone just buys it at the store, which doesn't sell to minors.

Cocaine, though, offered to me all the time!

Re: Should We Loosen the Restrictions on Psychedelics?

#26

The headline's question should really be reframed to question the validity of these restrictions in the first place. I'm not a user of any of these sorts of substances, nor condone them, but there's zero reason for a free country to police personal use of such things. Sure, driving under the influence should be policed as a safety hazard, showing up to work out of your gourd should still get you fired, etc. But there…

The federal government has no right to do it anyways.

People forget the constitution was written to limit the power of the federal government, not the people.

Clarence Thomas discussed this in his dissent on Gonzalez vs Raich where homegrown medical marijuana was legally grown in California for personal use, but destroyed without due process, and with disregard to the fifth, ninth, tenth amendments, by the federal government.

In his dissent, Thomas complained that:

"the Court abandons any attempt to enforce the Constitution’s limits on federal power."

https://www.law.cornell.edu/supct/html/03-1454.ZD1.html

Re: Should We Loosen the Restrictions on Psychedelics?

#27

Wonder what the story with Salvia should be, you don't see people talk much about it. Seems like it's still legal in some states.

The "good" thing about salvia (re: people here talking about addiction and abuse) is that once you try it, there's a an even chance you'll never want to try psychedelics again.

Re: Should We Loosen the Restrictions on Psychedelics?

#29
The classification of LSD as a schedule I drug is unsupportable; it was researched for 20 years before it became a 60s plaything and the threat of the counter-culture movement to the establishment was enough to get all psychedelic research killed off.

But as the article points out, there are real risks. There are a large number of LSD zealots who have not just goofy but dangerous beliefs about LSD. Spend any amount of time looking at posts on /r/lsd and you'll find people claiming LSD is a sure-fire cure for depression. Sure, some people have found it helpful, but those who tried it and went off the deep end probably aren't hanging around on /r/lsd.

The other frightening thing about /r/lsd is how many teenagers are there. Part of the over-representation is due to the nature of reddit. Even so, little good can come out of that cohort dabbling in psychedelics.

Re: Should We Loosen the Restrictions on Psychedelics?

#30

The headline's question should really be reframed to question the validity of these restrictions in the first place. I'm not a user of any of these sorts of substances, nor condone them, but there's zero reason for a free country to police personal use of such things. Sure, driving under the influence should be policed as a safety hazard, showing up to work out of your gourd should still get you fired, etc. But there…

"but there's zero reason for a free country to police personal use of such things." There are a lot of reasons. The people on HN and their social circles are waaay on the high end of conscientiousness. They have nary any risk from something like LSD for the most part. But - wide open and fairly unregulated use? Available at the corner store? So many types will try it, more than a few times. Younger kids will definite…

> 'Legalizing hard drugs' is kind of a theoretical issue because I think it's hard for us to contemplate what actual widespread use would look like

Opium dens?

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