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I’m leaving China

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Re: I’m leaving China

#151

Post by ajross »

lgvln wrote: post #136
ajross wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's true, but not in the 20th century. For lots of reasons, China broadly missed the industrial revolution. By the time of the communist revolution, they had... basically nothing indigenous. There was no export industry, most people were at a subsistence level, and essentially the entirety of the social elite were foreign-educated aristocracy simply living off of assets worked by a staggeringly large underclass. I…

In case anyone is curious, the “various reasons” are the Opium Wars, collapse of the Qing dynasty/monarchy, World War 2, the subsequent civil war and the Great Leap Forward. I probably wouldn’t use “a mess” to describe all those events though. I guess what the previous OP meant by “potential of its people” is their historical culture, akin to why the Jews are generally quite successful on the whole (attributed to the…

You forgot the Japanese occupation and exploitation, though I guess you could roll that into the collapse of the monarchy.

Re: I’m leaving China

#152

Post by throwb187 »

pascalxus wrote: post #71

Being in other countries like China and France really makes me appreciate how world class the customer service is in America. Here in the US, you can tell a waiter that your not happy with a dish and they'll immediately replace it with whatever you want. You can make substitutions, you can alter the way it's cooked (within reason), etc, and they still greet you with a smile and deliver excellent service. There are ma…

I've never been to France, but I have to completely disagree about China.

I've never asked to get my dish replaced, but the only times I have seen it happen are at very high end restaurants or chain restaurants, and that happened in both countries.

In general, I feel that I get much better customer service in China.

Perhaps it's because I'm a visible minority where some members of my group are not known as good tippers. So I am immediately assumed to be a bad tipper.

Then it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy, where I get bad service and thus I leave a low tip (In the past, I used to leave 20% even for bad service, just to try and defy the stereotype. But I've stopped doing it now.).

Re: I’m leaving China

#153

Post by throwb187 »

msie wrote: post #44
muxator wrote: post #38

> A common one is when someone is run over by a car and pedestrians just step over the body until a family member finds the body. The video goes viral, prompts a week of hand wringing, and then censors step in to talk about Confucianism and how the economy is growing. There is no innate value given to human life as precious.

And yet there is outrage in Chinese social media when that happens. So "not all Chinese"?

There are also a lot of news reports in China about the opposite happening. Where groups of people will get together to save someone.

There was even one incident where a group of people lifted a car up to save the girl that was run over. Or how a taxi driver jumps into a manhole to save a girl who fell in. Or how a group of delivery guys caught a child that was hanging on a several story perch. However, those news reports are rarely ever reported in Western media.

All we see are the bad things.

Re: I’m leaving China

#154

Post by throwb187 »

petermcneeley wrote: post #39

Contrast this: "I will use strong language about the authoritarian communist government but I do not want that in anyway to reflect upon the Chinese people." With these sentences: "There is a complete and utter lack of respect for the individual or person in China. People do not have innate value as people simply because they exist. This leads most directly to a lack of respect for the law/rules/norms. One thing I be…

While his kids could speak Mandarin and went to local schools, I have a feeling he was mainly in the expat bubble so had a very skewed perspective of China and the people.

Also, it seems like people will give a pass to these types of generalizations if it's about Asians or Chinese people. To tell if something is "racist," I like to apply the Black/Jewish-Litmus Test.

Basically replace the word Chinese with Black or Jewish and see if you find it racist. If you do, then it is when you write about Chinese people.

e.g. There is a complete and utter lack of respect for the individual or person in Israel... There was no exogenously held right or wrong, only whether you made money.

There is a complete and utter lack of respect for the individual or person in Nigeria...Lying is utterly common, but telling the truth revolutionary. There was no value system.

Re: I’m leaving China

#155

Post by vfulco2 »

iliketosleep wrote: post #98
duxup wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems like they went from pragmatism back to authoritarianism.

They went from being pragmatic back to being overly ideological. History forever repeats itself, even more so in China where they are not allowed to discuss it openly & objectively.

And the overreach goes in cycles until the latest one loses the mandate from heaven and revolution of one kind or another ensues.

Re: I’m leaving China

#156

Post by jwilbs »

abhgh wrote: post #102
dhruvrrp wrote: post #46

The issues the author has about line cutting and openly gawking seemed kinda interesting. In my view line cutting happens because people have this view that their time is more valuable than anyone else's, and so they don't see it as breaking any 'rules' as such. And this isn't unique to China, you can see this in a lot of poorer south/south-east Asian countries. Kinda why driving is also a nightmare in these countrie…

Ha, that reminds me. I have a thing for trying out good cafes, and on my way to Berkeley, I decided to stop at one in Oakland. Till that point my ambit had been more or less limited to areas where s/w companies are + touristy spots. So, I never was the only Indian around. But here I was - and I got a lot of stares during my walk from a BART station to the cafe. Which was amusing and mildly uncomfortable.

I find this comment odd. I spent many years in Oakland and saw plenty of Indians (a quick google search shows Oakland is 17% Asian). Not to mention there are at least three Indian restaurants within two blocks of 12th street/Oakland City Center BART.

Re: I’m leaving China

#157

Post by vfulco2 »

neutraltones wrote: post #67

This is a fairly disorganized, highly-opinionated blog post--it would benefit most from broken down into several smaller topics (Chinese government's treatment of expatriates and isolationism, US-China relations or the current state of the US government, opinions on Chinese social culture as a whole). Since most of the comments here are commenting on the author's cultural opinions, I'll post a quote by Anthony Bourda…

And Bourdain spent what 2 weeks there?

Re: I’m leaving China

#158

Post by abhgh »

jwilbs wrote: post #156
abhgh wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ha, that reminds me. I have a thing for trying out good cafes, and on my way to Berkeley, I decided to stop at one in Oakland. Till that point my ambit had been more or less limited to areas where s/w companies are + touristy spots. So, I never was the only Indian around. But here I was - and I got a lot of stares during my walk from a BART station to the cafe. Which was amusing and mildly uncomfortable.

I find this comment odd. I spent many years in Oakland and saw plenty of Indians (a quick google search shows Oakland is 17% Asian). Not to mention there are at least three Indian restaurants within two blocks of 12th street/Oakland City Center BART.

I am not sure why you find this odd. This could be locality specific - I didn't tell you where exactly my walk was. Nor did I imply if I walked the same distance anywhere in Oakland - anywhere in all 78 sq mi in it - I would invite the same reactions. In fact I do believe its locality specific, because in my other visits, which were to some of the theatres, the Oracle arena etc, I did see Indians.

Also, not that it matters to my point, your quick Google search was for the Asian population - the Indian population is much lesser - you made me curious, so I Googled. Apparently 3.95% of the Asian population of Oakland is Indian - which actually comes to < 1%.

Re: I’m leaving China

#159

Post by alexandercrohde »

throwb187 wrote: post #154
petermcneeley wrote: post #39

Contrast this: "I will use strong language about the authoritarian communist government but I do not want that in anyway to reflect upon the Chinese people." With these sentences: "There is a complete and utter lack of respect for the individual or person in China. People do not have innate value as people simply because they exist. This leads most directly to a lack of respect for the law/rules/norms. One thing I be…

While his kids could speak Mandarin and went to local schools, I have a feeling he was mainly in the expat bubble so had a very skewed perspective of China and the people. Also, it seems like people will give a pass to these types of generalizations if it's about Asians or Chinese people. To tell if something is "racist," I like to apply the Black/Jewish-Litmus Test. Basically replace the word Chinese with Black or J…

Disagree on every level:

1. It's not racist to criticize cultures (race = genetics)

2. It's important to criticize cultures, many of them are shitty (e.g. women can't vote, light skin people can't marry dark skin people)

3. Observing other cultures and finding patterns is the definition of sociology

4. If somebody told you sociology were racist, it'd be a real shame if you let your fear of being labeled stop you from learning.

Re: I’m leaving China

#160

Post by oceanman888 »

torgian wrote: post #141
seanmcdirmid wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, there aren’t many kids chasing balls in the states anymore.

They’re too busy chasing Pokémon. Well, I’m Japan at least

Probably more people die by playing Pokemon go, ie chasing Pokemon than balls these day.
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