Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

How did you get where you are?

news.ycombinator.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

1–10 of 13 posts

How did you get where you are?

#1

Post by Tmp1234 »

I’d like to get a collection of the following things from the programmers who come on here:

Your subjective experience coding and your story- How long have you been coding? How difficult has it been? Are you noticeably quicker/slower or less/more skilled than your peers? How hard did you have to work and study to get where you’ve gotten? What were the roadblocks? Do you have any lessons and advice for people considering becoming a programmer or struggling? Are you happy with where your at? Would you do it again?

Occupational and educational outcome- Which company do you work for? What position do you have? How complex and challenging is the work? How much do you make? If you’re not working or just starting - What school do you go to? What’s your GPA? What projects have you done? Which internships? How has the technical interview process been for you? Finally, if you were on either of those paths and then changed direction, why?

IQ – If you’ve taken a real IQ test under the supervision of a psychologist only. Please, don’t post if you’ve never taken a real IQ test, are not willing to share your score or want to debate the value of IQ.

The IQ data point is why I feel the need to make this thread rather than just googling and reading the plethora of blogs or threads which already share the first two points. I’ve almost never seen or heard someone mention alongside their story and achievements any objective information about their natural abilities. The objective part is key as you can still have struggled and discredit the role of your natural abilities despite being a genuine genius. I believe this information is critical to being able to interpret any story of this sort correctly.

Re: How did you get where you are?

#2

Post by hluska »

You're collecting one hell of a lot of personal information here and frankly, I'm not comfortable sharing that level of information without some idea of what you're doing with all of it.

Finally, with the way you admonish people in the IQ section and the brand new, anon account, I'm inclined towards not trusting you.

Re: How did you get where you are?

#4

Post by Tmp1234 »

hluska wrote: post #2

You're collecting one hell of a lot of personal information here and frankly, I'm not comfortable sharing that level of information without some idea of what you're doing with all of it. Finally, with the way you admonish people in the IQ section and the brand new, anon account, I'm inclined towards not trusting you.

If you don't want to share, that's fine. I'm just trying to get some data to help me make a choice in my own life about my career.

My experience has been bringing up intelligence or IQ automatically people always bring up a set of counterarguments on why it doesn't matter or shouldn't be focused on and because people sometimes say things like "I took an IQ test on X.com and got 234" cause those are not accurate. I'm trying to prevent those responses.

Re: How did you get where you are?

#5

Post by hluska »

Tmp1234 wrote: post #4
hluska wrote: post #2

You're collecting one hell of a lot of personal information here and frankly, I'm not comfortable sharing that level of information without some idea of what you're doing with all of it. Finally, with the way you admonish people in the IQ section and the brand new, anon account, I'm inclined towards not trusting you.

If you don't want to share, that's fine. I'm just trying to get some data to help me make a choice in my own life about my career. My experience has been bringing up intelligence or IQ automatically people always bring up a set of counterarguments on why it doesn't matter or shouldn't be focused on and because people sometimes say things like "I took an IQ test on X.com and got 234" cause those are not accurate. I'm…

You might like StackOverflow's surveys as they go into all of this, though in a highly generalized way. Many people are more comfortable sharing deeply personal, highly structured information like this when they know the results will be anonymized.

Can I also give you some unsolicited career advice?

First, a great deal of this industry happens over writing. In this case, you have made a very significant, highly structured and deeply personal ask. Yet, you have done so in language that genuinely makes me distrust you. If I were you, I would learn to soften my approach, particularly when I'm asking for help. If you would like some specific examples, feel free to ask here or via email (it's on my profile). I would be glad to help you, but I don't want to batter you for no reason.

Second, if having a discussion about IQ's value in software development is that annoying to you, I worry that this field would make you profoundly unhappy.

Re: How did you get where you are?

#6

Post by Tmp1234 »

hluska wrote: post #5
Tmp1234 wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you don't want to share, that's fine. I'm just trying to get some data to help me make a choice in my own life about my career. My experience has been bringing up intelligence or IQ automatically people always bring up a set of counterarguments on why it doesn't matter or shouldn't be focused on and because people sometimes say things like "I took an IQ test on X.com and got 234" cause those are not accurate. I'm…

You might like StackOverflow's surveys as they go into all of this, though in a highly generalized way. Many people are more comfortable sharing deeply personal, highly structured information like this when they know the results will be anonymized. Can I also give you some unsolicited career advice? First, a great deal of this industry happens over writing. In this case, you have made a very significant, highly struc…

I never knew about those surveys. Thanks for pointing them out. They don't seem to get at what I'm seeking though. There are no connections drawn between innate ability, self described difficulty in the field and thresholds of prestige and compensation reached given the first two which is what I'm interested in. Maybe, I'm not looking at the data in the right way though.

I'm open to whatever advice you have to offer even if it comes along with "battering." I would posit though, and correct me if I'm wrong, that what maybe you don't like what I've said rather than you not trusting me? I can see how the sort of bluntness I used can be off putting to some and how the nature of the questions are inherently personal and thus uncomfortable, but I struggle to see how anything I wrote makes me seem malicious or untrustworthy. I know people tend to distrust what they dislike and trust what they like which is a huge fallacy, but a heuristic many people feel comfortable acting on or, perhaps, don't even notice they act on. If that's not the case here though, I'm very interested in why you feel distrust.

I don't see any correlation between enjoyment of the discussion about the role of IQ in software development and satisfaction as a software engineer. Can you explain what you mean?

Re: How did you get where you are?

#7

Post by jolmg »

Tmp1234 wrote: post #6
hluska wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You might like StackOverflow's surveys as they go into all of this, though in a highly generalized way. Many people are more comfortable sharing deeply personal, highly structured information like this when they know the results will be anonymized. Can I also give you some unsolicited career advice? First, a great deal of this industry happens over writing. In this case, you have made a very significant, highly struc…

I never knew about those surveys. Thanks for pointing them out. They don't seem to get at what I'm seeking though. There are no connections drawn between innate ability, self described difficulty in the field and thresholds of prestige and compensation reached given the first two which is what I'm interested in. Maybe, I'm not looking at the data in the right way though. I'm open to whatever advice you have to offer…

When I came into this thread I was expecting nothing more than the title question, and anecdotes as responses.

However, the question body is a deep survey over various details of our lives, and you're not even putting internet reputation at stake. It seems inappropriate to ask so many questions. The language as it changes towards the end also invokes distrust. For example,

> Please, don’t post if ...

You ask so much of us and still you put conditions over who you want to listen to? Really? It doesn't sound like a favour, anymore.

Re: How did you get where you are?

#8

Post by Tmp1234 »

jolmg wrote: post #7
Tmp1234 wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I never knew about those surveys. Thanks for pointing them out. They don't seem to get at what I'm seeking though. There are no connections drawn between innate ability, self described difficulty in the field and thresholds of prestige and compensation reached given the first two which is what I'm interested in. Maybe, I'm not looking at the data in the right way though. I'm open to whatever advice you have to offer…

When I came into this thread I was expecting nothing more than the title question, and anecdotes as responses. However, the question body is a deep survey over various details of our lives, and you're not even putting internet reputation at stake. It seems inappropriate to ask so many questions. The language as it changes towards the end also invokes distrust. For example, > Please, don’t post if ... You ask so much…

I don't understand your point about putting internet reputation at stake. If someone well known and respected asked this question here and people responded earnestly and completely the information is still public and could be accessed by me or anyone else. Thus, the risks are the same regardless of asks the question, aren't they?

As for the length and quantity of the questions, I was just trying to help people think through their responses and specify what I'm interested in learning. The "please don't post if..." part is because whenever I've mentioned IQ in this context there's a huge backlash and every rushes to talk about how it's not important. I wanted to avoid that, but I can see how it rubs people the wrong way.

In the end, this seems a lot more like evoking dislike rather than distrust. The two don't correlate in my brain. I've met many charming people who were not trustworthy and plenty of off putting people who are highly moral. Maybe, I'm really not getting something though.

Re: How did you get where you are?

#9

Post by jolmg »

Tmp1234 wrote: post #8
jolmg wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I came into this thread I was expecting nothing more than the title question, and anecdotes as responses. However, the question body is a deep survey over various details of our lives, and you're not even putting internet reputation at stake. It seems inappropriate to ask so many questions. The language as it changes towards the end also invokes distrust. For example, > Please, don’t post if ... You ask so much…

I don't understand your point about putting internet reputation at stake. If someone well known and respected asked this question here and people responded earnestly and completely the information is still public and could be accessed by me or anyone else. Thus, the risks are the same regardless of asks the question, aren't they? As for the length and quantity of the questions, I was just trying to help people think…

Well, if it's lack of charm, it can only be the wording. I can't see or hear you. Like hluska said, it's a matter of softening your approach.

About your question on what invokes distrust, you ask too many personal questions. Where we work, our position, how much we make, where we went to school. By the volume of questions, I interpret that you want to know as much as possible about us. That leads me to believe that you also want the questions answered as precisely as possible, like being able to get the addresses of the schools and work buildings. And all this to be published publicly and left for eternity on the internet.

Let me put it another way. If a random stranger in the street or a restaurant or something started talking to you, basically asking question after question like those you put here. Would you not be suspicious of him? Why would you answer him?

About reputation, it's not about being well known, it's about having a stable identity. Using a throwaway account makes it seem like you don't want to associate yourself with this post. That's a minor point, though.

Anyways, sorry about my own wording if it's harsh. I might be a bit cranky, right now.

Re: How did you get where you are?

#10

Post by hluska »

Tmp1234 wrote: post #6
hluska wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You might like StackOverflow's surveys as they go into all of this, though in a highly generalized way. Many people are more comfortable sharing deeply personal, highly structured information like this when they know the results will be anonymized. Can I also give you some unsolicited career advice? First, a great deal of this industry happens over writing. In this case, you have made a very significant, highly struc…

I never knew about those surveys. Thanks for pointing them out. They don't seem to get at what I'm seeking though. There are no connections drawn between innate ability, self described difficulty in the field and thresholds of prestige and compensation reached given the first two which is what I'm interested in. Maybe, I'm not looking at the data in the right way though. I'm open to whatever advice you have to offer…

I understand more about what you're looking for. I still won't answer your questions, but I understand you now. Unfortunately, I don't know of any resources, but this seems like something that someone would have written about in some business school. Have you tried Google Scholar? You might even find some good case material about hiring software engineers.

Alternately, maybe you could learn more from Triplebyte's blog? I've read a couple of really amazing articles about selecting successful engineers on their site and I bet that I've missed many other high quality articles.

As far as your wording goes, jolmg gave you some excellent advice, particularly along the 'please don't post' line. Personally, I can assure you that it isn't a matter of disliking you. Honestly, if I didn't like you, I wouldn't have posted here at all. I like you and want to help you, just not under the terms that you outlined.

As for the part about the correlation between the role of IQ and satisfaction as a software engineer, I might be hearing you wrong. I think that you're saying that repetitively debating the same subject annoys you. Am I right, or are you saying that you find the particular topic of IQ annoying?

Post reply on HN