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Chinese Researchers Achieve Quantum Entanglement Record

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Re: Chinese Researchers Achieve Quantum Entanglement Record

#91
post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We would not have Amazon, Netflix, Youtube, Facebook, Google Docs, Deep Learning, name any other modern software technology or product, if we were still writing and optimizing everything by hand in assembly or C. Those "2 to 4 orders of magnitude" that are "sitting on the table" are actually being used to make it possible for developers to work at a much higher level and be much more productive. I totally agree with…

We would absolutely have all those things still writing in C, the biggest difference between C of 30 years ago and modern Java are _libraries and IDEs_, not higher level programming. Those things you listed are pretty much all Java, and Java doesn't really provide any "higher level" thinking other than forgetting about memory management. A lot of optimizations left on the table have nothing to do with manual memory m…

Why exactly do you think we have all these things for modern languages and not C despite its incredible head start?

Answer that and I get the feeling you’ll understand why your current thinking is so misguided.

Re: Chinese Researchers Achieve Quantum Entanglement Record

#92
post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The quantum state of interest is induced when plucking the conjoined "guitars". (analog for particles) That state is induced at the moment the guitars share "locality" because entanglement requires locality for initialization of polarization. So then, we say we are as yet unaware of the qualities of the polarization we, ourselves, induced. Very mysterious. So spooky, yes? We do not measure, because we choose not to,…

You are missing the point of Bell test experiments. Such experiments demonstrate that which guitar is the high E one and which is the low E one is not decided when they are still together. It is not that you and everyone else just don't know which way it is until someone listens to one of them, it is actually not yet decided until someone listens to one of them.

It's just an expression of the conservation of energy. Much in the same way the double slit experiment conflates a particle transporting itself through two windows at once, so too, do these experiments conflate the polarizers as causing the effect.

Ask yourself: if you construct a gun, with two diametrically opposed barrels, with exactly opposed rifling twists, and you aim the gun at two opposing (but identical) abrasive knurled metal rasp targets, such that if the bullet spins one way, the ricochet off rasp target will send it to a blue target, but if the bullet spins the other way, the grain of the rasp target is such that the bullet is sent to an orange target, will you be surprised to find that the behavior of the projectiles remains consistent?

Fire those bullets out of that gun, and as the bullets leave the opposing twists of the barrel, and the spin of the bullets encounters the friction of the knurled surface, they will consistently be sent in whichever direction the spin of the barrels rifling puts them. When one side sends spins the bullet to hit the blue target, the other barrel's twist always puts the other corresponding bullet onto the orange target, by bouncing it off the polarizer rasp.

So, now, to shrink downward to the realm of particle physics, what we find is that the ballistic particle guns are such that the emitter source is an array of many guns with varying rifling twists, but like pulling a lever on a slot machine, we cannot know which of the guns embedded in the radiation source will fire next.

We won't know the turn of the rifling of the gun's barrel prior to whichever one happens to go off. We stick out our rasp target to have it send the bullet to a colored target, and we declare that the polarizer rasp directed the bullet particle, but not really. The emitting source's gun barrel imparted the spin. The polarizers induced behavior on particles that would have behaved as reciprocals anyway.

Re: Chinese Researchers Achieve Quantum Entanglement Record

#93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Im not an expert so from my outside viewpoint I think by taking the guitar far away you are implying possibility of faster than light communication, which is thought to be not possible, so his links address that? Hard for me to understand so I'm just saying my thoughts out loud to get clarified, thanks

The quantum state of interest is induced when plucking the conjoined "guitars". (analog for particles) That state is induced at the moment the guitars share "locality" because entanglement requires locality for initialization of polarization. So then, we say we are as yet unaware of the qualities of the polarization we, ourselves, induced. Very mysterious. So spooky, yes? We do not measure, because we choose not to,…

It's not about getting correlated outcomes when the measurements are made, that would be unsurprising. It's that the correlations (or more precisely, the distributions) of the outcomes conditioned on seemingly random measurement choices suggest that the outcomes are not from independent measurements.

Now there are several ways you can interpret that: 1) the measurement choice at one site is superluminously conveyed to the other site and causes an effect; 2) the measurement choices are not independent and random despite the best attempts of the experimenters; 3) the wavefunction over the two sites is physically real and both measurement choices are necessary to sample it.

Re: Chinese Researchers Achieve Quantum Entanglement Record

#94
post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And we all use them just to rant at each other about political things that we in reality are totally misinformed about ... and otherwise just waste our lives. So if I decide to use the device that I have bought and invested in, to "rant" about something (to connect to other people through it, essentially), or even just connect to my loved ones sending "meaningless" information (as many I'm sure would call it), or i…

I think many people would find intellectually boring your position of absolute personal freedom with no objective measure of excellence, along with your aggressive defense of such. But there is also objective information which would support OP's position for someone who considers objectivity in the personal sphere of little value: heavy computer and mobile use has been linked many times with psychological difficultie…

Many deep profound things are intellectually boring. For many people that's a big obstacle to overcome in order to learn them. I can't see how "being boring" is any substantive argument for or against any question discussed here.

The original author used his "objective measure of excellence" as an argument for not developing quantum computing technologies to be used in personal devices. In this specific instance, in this practical regard (even though it's probably 50 years too early for this question) - I argue that yes, the position of personal freedom (to use quantum computing in cell phones, exaggeratedly) does indeed trump the other position which is to actively exclude quantum computing from phones for the vague fear that people might waste their lives on it, by failing to fit into some objective measure of excellence.

Re: Chinese Researchers Achieve Quantum Entanglement Record

#95
post #76
post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So the number of raw qubits are in the order of a million for large prime factorization or to make Shor's algorithm a reality. This is because the physical qubits are highly unstable and prone to errors. The error correction methodologies will result in a fault-tolerant logical qubit. Depending on the error correction algorithm, the ratio of logical: data/physical qubit is 1:1000 at the minimum. You need 4000 logical…

How fast do you think the number of qubits will grow over the coming years? Will it be exponential, like Moore's law?

There was an AMA not long ago with someone in the quantum computer industry and iirc he stated that it isn't certain if we even can go that high. Guessing how fast that will happen is not reasonable at this point.

Re: Chinese Researchers Achieve Quantum Entanglement Record

#96
post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are missing the point of Bell test experiments. Such experiments demonstrate that which guitar is the high E one and which is the low E one is not decided when they are still together. It is not that you and everyone else just don't know which way it is until someone listens to one of them, it is actually not yet decided until someone listens to one of them.

It's just an expression of the conservation of energy. Much in the same way the double slit experiment conflates a particle transporting itself through two windows at once, so too, do these experiments conflate the polarizers as causing the effect. Ask yourself: if you construct a gun, with two diametrically opposed barrels, with exactly opposed rifling twists, and you aim the gun at two opposing (but identical) abra…

No, no, no. There is almost half a century of experimental evidence against you. The experimental results of Bell test experiments are incompatible with the assumption that the states of both particles are fixed when the pair is generated and are only classically correlated because of the way their states are fixed. All your analogy attempts are flawed and bound to fail exactly because entangled pairs of quantum particles do not behave like pairs of classical particles. You are making up classical experiment and assume that quantum particles will behave in the same way, but they don't. And that's the entire point.

EDIT: I just came across an illustration which might be helpful. I will place three coins on a table and cover them so that you can not see whether they are heads or tails. You get to pick two of them and I will reveal them for you but you can never look at the third one. Your task is to figure out by which rule I am placing the coins on the table.

In the first round you pick coins one and two, I reveal them to be heads and tails. In the second round you pick coins one and two again, now they are tails and heads. You continue picking coins one and two for a few thousand rounds and always see heads and tails or tails and heads, they are never the same.

Then you switch to picking coins two and three for a few thousand rounds and again they are always heads and tails or tails and heads, they are also never the same. Now you have figured out what I am doing, I am randomly choosing between heads, tails, heads and tails, heads, tails for coins one, two, and three.

So in the next round you pick coins one and three and I reveal them to you. Heads and tails. WtF?!? They should have been the same if I always choose between heads, tails, heads and tails, heads, tails. You try again. Heads and tails. Again. Tails and heads.

No matter what you try, you never get to see two coins with the same side up. That's ridiculous, you think. There are only two sides to a coin but three coins on the table. At least two of the coins have to have the same side up in each round and if you select the two coins to reveal at random, then you should at least sometimes get to see two coins with the same side up no matter which rule I use to place them. But you don't.

Assuming that I choose heads and tails for each of the coins when I placed them on the table and before you make your choice is incompatible with your observation that you never see two coins with the same side up. But if you assume that I can magically turn the coins around at the moment you tell me which two coins to reveal, then you can explain your observation. It may however trouble you because your explanation now involves magic.

And that is roughly how entangled pairs in Bell test experiments behave. Or more formally, classically P(1=2) + P(2=3) + P(3=1) >= 1, at least two coins always have the same side up no matter what the underlying distribution is. Entangled pairs in Bell test experiments violate this inequality, the probability of two coins having the same side up is less than 1. Not 0 as I portrayed it but 0.75.

Re: Chinese Researchers Achieve Quantum Entanglement Record

#97
post #79
post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We would not have Amazon, Netflix, Youtube, Facebook, Google Docs, Deep Learning, name any other modern software technology or product, if we were still writing and optimizing everything by hand in assembly or C. Those "2 to 4 orders of magnitude" that are "sitting on the table" are actually being used to make it possible for developers to work at a much higher level and be much more productive. I totally agree with…

I disagree. The slowness of these languages is mostly uncorrelated with increases in productivity. People only think there’s cause-and-effect here because they haven’t seen counterexamples, because the trend in language design for 25 years has been to make slow languages.

They haven't seen counterexamples because there are virtually none. If what you said was correct wouldn't there be many examples of big bodies of code written in a language like C? (And you can't say "linux kernel" - low-level code needs to be written in a low-level language, in order to communicate with the lower levels like hardware and controllers and such. There is a practical reason to write that in C.)

> because the trend in language design for 25 years has been to make slow languages

No one sets out to make a language to make them slow. The trend is to make higher level languages. Do you really think that there is no reason for it besides novelty and coolness factor?

Re: Chinese Researchers Achieve Quantum Entanglement Record

#98
post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We all have these things in our pockets that are massive supercomputers by the standards of my college days. And we all use them just to rant at each other about political things that we in reality are totally misinformed about ... and otherwise just waste our lives. I am not sure why quantum computing is supposed to change this. Even software that is supposed to be useful is so terribly slow. Computers are between 2…

The introduction of automobiles permitted the development of F1 racecar drivers, but just ended up with most people dragging themselves around to get food and money. The introduction of the printing press permitted the publication of pamphlets and books that overturned world governments and dethroned kings... but most people used it to trade porn and recipe books. Technology doesn't make people better. It lets people…

Excellent context to frame this discussion.

"They won't be remembered."

-otakucode

Re: Chinese Researchers Achieve Quantum Entanglement Record

#99
post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not an expert, but my understanding is that while better knowledge/models of the biology might be useful, ultimately it's just a massive computational project to test out and optimize protein folding and such complex chemical behavior. The physics/chemistry and biology are understood well enough, there are just nearly countless paths to explore making it a huge problem.

Nature manages to fold proteins quickly enough. What's nature doing that we can't?

Parallelization on a single particle level at every point in space.

Re: Chinese Researchers Achieve Quantum Entanglement Record

#100
post #24
post #13

Crash course in entanglement: The state of each qbit is represented by a state vector of two complex numbers [a, b] where |a|^2 + |b|^2 = 1. There are two special qbit values called the classical basis : [1, 0] which is the classical bit 0, and [0, 1] which is the classical bit 1. If a qbit is not in one of the two classical states, we say it is in superposition . When a qbit is in superposition, we can measure it[0]…

The part I don't understand is the "spooky action at a distance." Isn't this just the same as if the qbits were already in whatever their final state was as soon as they were entangled? Or in other words, is there any experimental basis for determining that the "cat" stayed alive at all? It seems a lot less magical when we just determine that in fact the value is the same no matter when or where you measure it, altho…

The explanation you're supposing for the "spooky action at a distance" is called a hidden variable theory, and as others have said, this explanation has been disproven. You might be wondering how, and I'll tell you the scenario (adapted from The Elegant Universe) that helped me understand.

Imagine you and I each have a device: a small box with one openable window on the top, one on the front, and one on the back. When one of these windows is opened, it shows either white or black. Further, I tell you that these boxes are entangled: if we both open the same window, the same color will be displayed on both boxes. This only works for the first window opened and only if we both open the same window: if a second window is opened or if we open two different windows, the colors shown will no longer be correlated in any way.

I actually have many of these pairs of boxes, each pair numbered uniquely to identify its matching twin, and we run the experiment for an arbitrarily large number of them until you're satisfied that my claim holds true. You see nothing special about these boxes and argue that they're simply preprogrammed from the factory to display a set of colors the first time a window is opened (for example, BWB or WWB). I counter that entanglement is special and the boxes are not preprogrammed from the factory. In fact, they decide at random which color to show right at the moment one of the boxes' windows is opened!

My claim seems crazy and at first glance possibly even unprovable! But it turns out with a bit of cleverness we can test this.

We take an arbitrarily large number of boxes and begin independently opening their windows at random (without consulting or coordinating with each other when deciding which window to open), recording box numbers, window choices, and the resulting colors. When finished, we compare notes. Sure enough, when we both open the same window on entangled boxes, the colors match as expected. Upon a closer look at the data, we discover something surprising. Ignoring which window we opened, each pair of entangled boxes showed the same color exactly 50% of the time. How is this surprising? A little bit of probabilistic analysis conclusively demonstrates that such a result is fundamentally incompatible with any hidden variable theory.

Assume for the sake of argument that the boxes are preprogrammed. The only possible programming for each box is some form of XXX or XXY. Consider: if both boxes are programmed WWW (or BBB) and we both open a window at random, it will show the same color 100% of the time. If both are programmed WWB (or BWB, or BWW, or any equivalent variant), 2/3 of the time there's a 2/3 chance of displaying the same color when choosing windows at random and 1/3rd of the time there's a 1/3 chance. Combined, whenever the colors are in an XXY configuration, there's a 5/9 chance of showing the same color when windows are chosen at random. Note that in both scenarios the odds of seeing the same color from randomly-chosen windows are greater than 50%! Assuming the preprogrammed colors are chosen at random, some form of XXX will be chosen 2/8 of the time and XXY will be chosen 6/8 of the time, we see that the total odds of seeing the same color if the boxes were preprogrammed should be 2/8 * 100% + 6/8 * 5/9 = 2/3. In theory, our data should have shown a 66% agreement in color, but our experiment consistently shows colors matching 50% of the time.

A hidden variable theory—any hidden variable theory—runs into this probabilistic hurdle.

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