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The Turkish city that lives for breakfast

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Re: The Turkish city that lives for breakfast

#41

If you consider visiting Van, I recommend you to take train. This route is still not popular enough among tourists because eastern Turkey had gone through violent conflicts. As long as you don’t get yourself in trouble intentionally, you’ll be safe though. I traveled Eastern Turkey by hitchhiking last year with my wife, and felt really safe and welcomed. People are very friendly, food is great, the nature is like Swi…

Thank you very much!

Re: The Turkish city that lives for breakfast

#42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a lot of military check points, many undercover cops. So you need to manage your ambition about politics when you’re there. just be a tourist and you’ll be fine :)

>So you need to manage your ambition about politics A polite way of saying "don't be that jerk that goes to someone else's home/town/county/state/country just to tell them what they're doing wrong" which really shouldn't be that hard to do if you're distracted by all the other touristy things you should be doing. Edit: I know this is gonna get down-voted because it's not "nice" but it's true. You shouldn't go to wher…

I'd say people need to recognize that the role of tourist and activist are different, and don't combine well. Know why you're there, and take the appropriate precautions for your role, and you're probably going to be fine. But don't show up as an activist and expect to be treated like a tourist.

Re: The Turkish city that lives for breakfast

#43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>So you need to manage your ambition about politics A polite way of saying "don't be that jerk that goes to someone else's home/town/county/state/country just to tell them what they're doing wrong" which really shouldn't be that hard to do if you're distracted by all the other touristy things you should be doing. Edit: I know this is gonna get down-voted because it's not "nice" but it's true. You shouldn't go to wher…

I'd say people need to recognize that the role of tourist and activist are different, and don't combine well. Know why you're there, and take the appropriate precautions for your role, and you're probably going to be fine. But don't show up as an activist and expect to be treated like a tourist.

Activists in general should always expect to be treated harshly.

Re: The Turkish city that lives for breakfast

#44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a lot of military check points, many undercover cops. So you need to manage your ambition about politics when you’re there. just be a tourist and you’ll be fine :)

>So you need to manage your ambition about politics A polite way of saying "don't be that jerk that goes to someone else's home/town/county/state/country just to tell them what they're doing wrong" which really shouldn't be that hard to do if you're distracted by all the other touristy things you should be doing. Edit: I know this is gonna get down-voted because it's not "nice" but it's true. You shouldn't go to wher…

Anyone downvoting you is an idiot. It's disrespectful towards locals and unless you are of the exact same culture there is a ton implicit cultural context one is not aware of. So, unless one has some concrete mission (in which case one is not a tourist but entirely something else) any disrespectful comments are likely to only hurt feelings and project ill will towards the transgresssor.

Any tourist activist is a pure idiot. People are quite capable of taking care of themselves, and if something human behaviour related looks like it needs fixing it's likely a non trivial thing to fix.

Re: The Turkish city that lives for breakfast

#46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lake Van Express(Eastwards:Sundays and Tuesdays, Westwards:Tuesdays and Thursdays). Eastern Express, which works between Ankara and Kars, is running sleepers full.

It is usually overbooked though. It was great a few years ago when it wasn't very popular.

Not overbooked, it is just sleepers full. Seats cars and compartment cars are approximately half full and carrying mostly Ankara-Kırıkkale and Erzincan-Divriği commuters.

Re: The Turkish city that lives for breakfast

#47
post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Both parties are abused. No body gives a damn about Armenians or Turks. Not really. Other countries are using this to exploit both countries however it is possible. That's enough abuse. It's politics and it's disgusting.

Turkey needs to recognize the Genocide, instead it's putting all its effort into denial propaganda inside and outside Turkey. They even made Armenians not bringing it up a precondition for opening the border. Until Turkey can be honest Armenians will fight for truth to be preserved outside of Turkey. This may be an abstract issue for you but most Armenians today still are just one generation away from survivors and t…

You're completely missing my point. Although the main issue is the violence and genocide dispute between 2 nations (just making an objective remark that covers both sides), you can't just look at this matter only from that perspective. It's all about power leverage and gain. I have Armenian friends living in Turkey labeled traitors by the diaspora in the States who are not oppressed like their counterparts in Turkey. That is just another disgusting aspect of humans. It's hypocrisy.

Re: The Turkish city that lives for breakfast

#48
post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Turkey needs to recognize the Genocide, instead it's putting all its effort into denial propaganda inside and outside Turkey. They even made Armenians not bringing it up a precondition for opening the border. Until Turkey can be honest Armenians will fight for truth to be preserved outside of Turkey. This may be an abstract issue for you but most Armenians today still are just one generation away from survivors and t…

You're completely missing my point. Although the main issue is the violence and genocide dispute between 2 nations (just making an objective remark that covers both sides), you can't just look at this matter only from that perspective. It's all about power leverage and gain. I have Armenian friends living in Turkey labeled traitors by the diaspora in the States who are not oppressed like their counterparts in Turkey.…

It's not a "dispute", no more than Holocaust was. You trying to make this some kind of argument that has two sides is an insult to me. Jewish people don't have to listen to Germans complaining how Jewish killed so many Germans in Warsaw. Turks drafted our men to "labor battalions", slaughtered them, and slaughtered remaining women and children. I have heard first hand stories of people who survived but lost most of their family. The pain is real, I can't look at it abstractly. And the nonsense about Armenian friends living in Turkey labeled traitors is nonsense. Armenians outside Turkey understand they live under an oppressive regime (see e.g. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Article_301_(Turkish_Penal_Cod...), and can be murdered any time by nationalists like Hrant Dink was so we don't expect them to be to vocal about Genocide.

Re: The Turkish city that lives for breakfast

#49

Having heard the hype about this famous breakfast I have to admit to being a little underwhelmed when I experienced it myself, so ymmv. Apart from that my trip to Eastern Turkey was brilliant and as with others I wholeheartedly recommend it. So much amazing history and scenery, friendly people, easy travel. I'd suggest it's safer with at least two of you and I'm not sure I'd visit Diyarbakir area if I went again now.…

> Don't mention the Armenian genocide. What happens when you do? Do people just stop being nice to you or way more?

[deleted]

Re: The Turkish city that lives for breakfast

#50
post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're completely missing my point. Although the main issue is the violence and genocide dispute between 2 nations (just making an objective remark that covers both sides), you can't just look at this matter only from that perspective. It's all about power leverage and gain. I have Armenian friends living in Turkey labeled traitors by the diaspora in the States who are not oppressed like their counterparts in Turkey.…

It's not a "dispute", no more than Holocaust was. You trying to make this some kind of argument that has two sides is an insult to me. Jewish people don't have to listen to Germans complaining how Jewish killed so many Germans in Warsaw. Turks drafted our men to "labor battalions", slaughtered them, and slaughtered remaining women and children. I have heard first hand stories of people who survived but lost most of t…

You're still not seeing my point. I'm talking about some utterly different aspect but it seems like due to your closer involvement it's unable for you to isolate and try to understand and question that point. I wasn't denying anything including Turkish State's penal code (which is not solely directed to the Armenian population) or suggesting that Armenians shouldn't be vocal on the matter or devaluating anyone's pain but you on the other hand are exactly doing that by calling some also real pain nonsense. You are the one being aggressive. There are Turkish citizens of Armenian origin who are under pressure from people living the USA. It's of course not the general action from abroad but it exists. Still, I see that you have lost the ability for scientific reasoning. Try to lose that dogmatic point of view and try to calmly evaluate what people are saying. This way you're just hurting your cause.
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