Federal Reserve chair says decline in workers' share of profits 'very troubling' • Hacker News Board

Re: Federal Reserve chair says decline in workers' share of profits 'very troubling'

#111

Post by kadenshep » Tue, Jul 17, 2018, 8:52 PM UTC

slg wrote: post #97

kadenshep wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>You would have to show that people are not investing because they have no extra money and not that they are choosing to use their money now instead of investing. We know they don't have enough money to invest. Average income + average cost of living We've quite literally known about if for years on a national scale. He doesn't have to show anything.

I am not victim blaming, I am pointing out a way that the "broken system" has failed to educate people about the problem. You also can't just cite the average cost of living as if that it is a standard that has no waste in it. We need to do a better job of framing things like "if you switch to a worse phone plan and save $10 per month to invest, you will probably have something around $30,000 in 30 years while only i…

I edited my comment to remove the statement "Stop blaming people for a system they didn't choose." I'm sorry you read it. It was unnecessary and you're right, you're not really victim blaming.

I got frustrated at face value because increasing wages would do more to alleviate a lot of American's financial woe's -- now and later -- than (rightfully) helping to educate Americans about investing money. You're right, even small bouts of investment can net large gains in the future. I jumped the gun and took it as "if you just stopped being dumb with money everything would be better!"

Wage increases are not only largely (historically) objectively justifiable, but wage increases would be more consistent and easier to "implement" than educating an entire populace in a better manner. There would also be the enormous task of changing purchasing habits. We know that even when people understand "doing X is bad for future results", that doesn't mean they'll make the more rational choice.

Neither perspective is exclusive. We can increase wages and we should also invest in educating Americans about sound financial practices. But wage increases can happen now, would be immediately beneficial to everyone, while also making it easier to invest and take on the risks associated with investing.

Re: Federal Reserve chair says decline in workers' share of profits 'very troubling'

#112

Post by pradn » Tue, Jul 17, 2018, 8:52 PM UTC

arblegobblebrbl wrote: post #37

pradn wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many people barely have enough to live on, let alone invest. If wages were higher in real terms, they're lives would be better. Plus, investing is risky. Not everyone has the ability to weather business downturns without tapping into savings.

Why does this have to be the case? There is so much opportunity in this country.

I'm with you on this. It's possible to change the situation.

Re: Federal Reserve chair says decline in workers' share of profits 'very troubling'

#113

Post by DisposableMike » Tue, Jul 17, 2018, 8:54 PM UTC

israelisreal wrote: post #72

csense wrote: post #52

40-50 years ago, a young person fresh out of high school could get a job that allowed them to live the middle class life -- own a house and support a family with only one spouse needing to work. Nowadays even college graduates struggle to achieve "liftoff." Globalization has led to a race-to-the-bottom situation where jobs flow across borders, to the places where desperate poverty allows wages to be as low as possibl…

I agree. I remember those days. At 50, I've been in IT now for 3 decades. The pay in IT has decreased as well. My dad pulled a family of four along on his salary and we were comfortable, but not rich. I lacked nothing. However... when I turned 10, I came home one day from school and there was a brand new mower sitting in the driveway with a gas can and a rope. My dad said, "Son, canvas the neighborhood and charge $5-…

Entitlement is receiving a brand new mower + fuel, in an area in need of its services and with residents having funds available to pay for its services, and thinking that your "hard work" is the only thing required to have realized its profits.

I'm fairly certain that young persons don't feel that anyone "owes them anything" - they only want the same opportunities that those before us had. The facts that those easy gains aren't possible anymore isn't a fault of those with the misfortune of being born 30 years later. Even in your own post, you admit that your platform of success isn't possible for current youth (can't afford college, can't afford a new vehicle, can't afford housing, etc), but yet, you still find a way to blame it on their "entitlement".

Re: Federal Reserve chair says decline in workers' share of profits 'very troubling'

#114

Post by nrook » Tue, Jul 17, 2018, 8:54 PM UTC

patagonia wrote: post #16

Unfortunately the laws and regulations in place facilitating this trend are put in place, for the most part, by elected representatives. For one thing, we need to change “first past the post” election results to decrease the polarizing results that have been shaping our politics as of late. I’m just saying, this isn’t a conspiracy by one party or group. To an extent, it’s the country we voted for.

Your solution doesn't have much to do with your problem. In general, the Republican party treats lowering taxes on the rich as a major policy goal. On the other hand, the Democratic party doesn't, and politicians and activists on the left side of that party tend to favor increased taxes on the rich.

The problem isn't polarization: the problem is that the wrong pole is getting elected.

Re: Federal Reserve chair says decline in workers' share of profits 'very troubling'

#115

Post by Art9681 » Tue, Jul 17, 2018, 8:54 PM UTC

israelisreal wrote: post #92

headcanon wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm happy for your daughter, but I'm not sure what your point is. State service can be a rewarding career path, I don't think that is in debate here.

The post was meant to state that there are paths that do not require going into mounting debt. The military is a fine path for those who are wired that way. It teaches discipline, team work, being a part of something bigger than yourself, and in return you basically live for free, largely pocketing the lion's share of your income. A young person can get a degree at night in the military (free) and if they like the mi…

I'm a veteran that had to enlist so I could get out of poverty. I also lean left. Let me say this out of a little spite since you decided to get political:

If you and your daughter's mother made the "right" decisions, your daughter wouldn't have to enlist in the military to have a chance at a good life.

I'll show myself out now.

Re: Federal Reserve chair says decline in workers' share of profits 'very troubling'

#116

Post by lovich » Tue, Jul 17, 2018, 8:56 PM UTC

israelisreal wrote: post #92

headcanon wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm happy for your daughter, but I'm not sure what your point is. State service can be a rewarding career path, I don't think that is in debate here.

The post was meant to state that there are paths that do not require going into mounting debt. The military is a fine path for those who are wired that way. It teaches discipline, team work, being a part of something bigger than yourself, and in return you basically live for free, largely pocketing the lion's share of your income. A young person can get a degree at night in the military (free) and if they like the mi…

The fact that _anyone_ can go down this path does not mean that _everyone_ can. The military would simply stop recruiting people or offering as nice benefits if everyone did this.

The issue in our country is that we are increasingly making the default way of life for average Americans be one of more anguish and stress when we do not have to. None of the options for success in the US that we currently have are going to handle the mass group of unemployed people that something like automated cars or fast food resturaunts automating will bring, especially when so many are already doing so poorly

Re: Federal Reserve chair says decline in workers' share of profits 'very troubling'

#117

Post by thomasmeeks » Tue, Jul 17, 2018, 8:56 PM UTC

israelisreal wrote: post #72

csense wrote: post #52

40-50 years ago, a young person fresh out of high school could get a job that allowed them to live the middle class life -- own a house and support a family with only one spouse needing to work. Nowadays even college graduates struggle to achieve "liftoff." Globalization has led to a race-to-the-bottom situation where jobs flow across borders, to the places where desperate poverty allows wages to be as low as possibl…

I agree. I remember those days. At 50, I've been in IT now for 3 decades. The pay in IT has decreased as well. My dad pulled a family of four along on his salary and we were comfortable, but not rich. I lacked nothing. However... when I turned 10, I came home one day from school and there was a brand new mower sitting in the driveway with a gas can and a rope. My dad said, "Son, canvas the neighborhood and charge $5-…

How's a kid supposed to make money mowing lawns if their parents cannot afford a mower? How are they supposed to do that if they live in the inner city & there are no lawns? What if their neighbors can't afford the service?

I'm not really sure what you are trying to say here. A safety net is entitlement? How so? What's the correct cutoff here, should we end social security and medicare as they exist today? Are you prepared to retire without either right now (kudos if you are)?

Should the US summarily shrug at people with disabilities that can't reasonably work? What will become of them? Homeless? Death? Should their families take care of them? What if they can't afford to? What should people do if they can't join the military?

You correctly point out that expenses are _much_ higher now. Is my generation entitled because we generally want a fair wage to pay for those expenses? Are we entitled for desiring the return of unions -- unions that did much to create those high wages out of the exploitation of the 1800's & early 1900's. Have you really thought any of this through?

Look, I'm part of this generation you're disparaging. I could wax poetic about how I "pulled myself up by my bootstraps" because I'm doing quite well. But I know it is bullshit, because I've also been fortunate enough to choose the right career, at the right time, and had remarkably few setbacks in life. Also I'm a white male in the US. I'm playing life on easy mode and to say otherwise is a lie.

That isn't true for everyone, and standing on your soapbox calling on everyone to "pull themselves up by their bootstraps" is both ignorant and dishonest. You've done well in life, but it appears to have bred a stunning lack of empathy.

Re: Federal Reserve chair says decline in workers' share of profits 'very troubling'

#118

Post by noonespecial » Tue, Jul 17, 2018, 8:56 PM UTC

csense wrote: post #52

40-50 years ago, a young person fresh out of high school could get a job that allowed them to live the middle class life -- own a house and support a family with only one spouse needing to work. Nowadays even college graduates struggle to achieve "liftoff." Globalization has led to a race-to-the-bottom situation where jobs flow across borders, to the places where desperate poverty allows wages to be as low as possibl…

Hmm. All I see is a sneaky (and regressive) tax raise on America's poorest.

You may as well claim raising fees at the DMV will MAGA because think of all the DMV workers who will have pay raises.

Re: Federal Reserve chair says decline in workers' share of profits 'very troubling'

#119

Post by germinalphrase » Tue, Jul 17, 2018, 8:56 PM UTC

israelisreal wrote: post #72

csense wrote: post #52

40-50 years ago, a young person fresh out of high school could get a job that allowed them to live the middle class life -- own a house and support a family with only one spouse needing to work. Nowadays even college graduates struggle to achieve "liftoff." Globalization has led to a race-to-the-bottom situation where jobs flow across borders, to the places where desperate poverty allows wages to be as low as possibl…

I agree. I remember those days. At 50, I've been in IT now for 3 decades. The pay in IT has decreased as well. My dad pulled a family of four along on his salary and we were comfortable, but not rich. I lacked nothing. However... when I turned 10, I came home one day from school and there was a brand new mower sitting in the driveway with a gas can and a rope. My dad said, "Son, canvas the neighborhood and charge $5-…

You acknowledge this indirectly, but the cost of education is not insignificant for young people today. Like you, both of my parents were able to graduate college without debt. Both had part time jobs, but my mom went to school on the GI Bill and my father received a state funded “hardship grant” because he was a talented/impoverished kid. In short, our society gave my parents boots so they could have the opportunity to build solid careers and raise their children in better circumstances than they received. Yes, the military is a fine option for some - but for most young people they have to take on ~30k in debt just for the opportunity to apply for a proper job. That's a very real anchor on success, and it's not the only one.

Re: Federal Reserve chair says decline in workers' share of profits 'very troubling'

#120

Post by Wissmania » Tue, Jul 17, 2018, 8:59 PM UTC

patagonia wrote: post #16

Unfortunately the laws and regulations in place facilitating this trend are put in place, for the most part, by elected representatives. For one thing, we need to change “first past the post” election results to decrease the polarizing results that have been shaping our politics as of late. I’m just saying, this isn’t a conspiracy by one party or group. To an extent, it’s the country we voted for.

It is true that multiple parties (which first past the post prevents) would make forming coalitions around issues like this easier.

Saying "this isn’t a conspiracy by one party or group" is pretty silly though. The economic policies advocated for and enacted by the two parties point in completely opposite directions.