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Linux touchpad like a Macbook: goal worth pursuing?

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Re: Linux touchpad like a Macbook: goal worth pursuing?

#241

Post by ahnick »

nottorp wrote: post #56
ahartmetz wrote: post #49

A cheap mouse allows finer and faster control than the best touchpad that currently exists, so... I plug in a mouse. (Don't believe me? Play an FPS game with touchpad against a mouse user.) That said, Synaptics touchpad support on Linux is bad. In my case, it's the touchpad on a Thinkpad T440s. It can run in a legacy/standard protocol mode or a "modern" protocol mode. Linux supposedly supports the latter (where palm…

Item 1: It's undeniable that the mouse is more precise, but it tethers you to a desk. One with enough space for a mouse. Not always feasible. Item 2: You're mentioning Thinkpads. Try a touchpad on OS X, then come back. The difference is enormous. You can actually use the GUI without a mouse and without being annoyed, it's the only laptop/OS combination where that works.

Not sure what model ThinkPad you had, but I was on a MBP 2013 and just recently transitioned to a ThinkPad T480 running Ubuntu. The trackpad is actually really nice on the T480 and I didn't have to do any special driver install to get that working. Scrolling is slightly smoother on the MBP, but honestly that is not a huge deal. (I think this is mostly due to the material of the T480 trackpad having more grip that anything else)

For sure the materials used on the MBP are of higher quality and if I had one complaint it would be that smudging on the T480 trackpad is noticeable where it is not on the MBP. With that said, if you are running a modern distro that has proper driver support then I think the trackpad on the T480 works really well and you will not find the difference to be "enormous".

Re: Linux touchpad like a Macbook: goal worth pursuing?

#242

Post by lucideer »

megaman22 wrote: post #123
rahoulb wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Really? Why not? Why would you use a mouse if you're on a laptop? Especially a macbook, where the trackpad is fantastic to use and offers gestures which give you features you don't get with a mouse.

Gestures are awful... They're nonstandard between boxes, and often flaky as all hell. One of the first things I disable on a new OS install. Why wouldn't you use a mouse, and get better precision, a standard form-factor, and universally solid drivers? Besides, you can take your mouse and plug it into any machine you need to work on.

> Why wouldn't you use a mouse, and get better precision, a standard form-factor, and universally solid drivers?

Most non-Mac-users do. Mac users don't, because they have a touchpad with better precision, a standard form factor and solid drivers. Hence this post. Why should I need to carry a peripheral everywhere for functionality my laptop purportedly has integrated?

One could counter-argue that touchpad is inherently worse than a mouse, but I think you'll find Apple have roundly disproven that. There's a reason the Magic Trackpad exists (though I've never owned one, demand seems to be there).

Re: Linux touchpad like a Macbook: goal worth pursuing?

#243

Post by peterburkimsher »

rayiner wrote: post #236
peterburkimsher wrote: post #140

I'll volunteer 2 months full-time development for free, with a few conditions. - I'm looking for a job in New Zealand, Australia, or Canada. Not Seattle (sorry Bill). I'd stop job hunting to work on this, so someone else will have to find me a job. - I'd develop for the MacBook Pro 2014, because that's my hardware. Only one Linux distro (probably Ubuntu). - Weekly check-in emails (maybe twice a week). A plan set out…

I hate to be negative, but what makes you think you can do in two months what Microsoft has failed to do in several years (Microsoft's Precision Touchpad is still a ways away from a Mac touchpad).

I probably can't finish it. But I can start, and document it all.

The 2 month time is because that's how long I spent on summer internships before (I rewrote Pixelgarde in 6 + 8 weeks, and a driver for a Fisher & Paykel Healthcare CPAP in less than 3 months). Second, my ankle's broken so I'm taking time off my normal work. Third, I hope that if I do the alternative (keep applying for jobs), I'd get an offer within 2 months.

Re: Linux touchpad like a Macbook: goal worth pursuing?

#244

Post by vazamb »

dijit wrote: post #70
Tepix wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The keyboard layout is an issue.

Or a benefit, depending on who you ask. (I prefer ANSI keyboards)

It is ridiculous how hard it is to get ANSI keyboards here (Germany). Laptops are ok (Macs, Lenovo and Dell) but external keyboards (especially mechanical ) and any other laptop brand are a huge hassle.

Re: Linux touchpad like a Macbook: goal worth pursuing?

#245

Post by noir_lord »

dorfsmay wrote: post #174
pizza234 wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had a Thinkpad x200s, and all in all, nothing came/comes close to it (tolerating the slightly thicker build, which is inevitable for highly serviceable machines). I've been an MBA user as well, for reference. I use the mousepad little to none though. Possibly (but I'm not sure, since I haven't tried) IBM had such capillary distribution to support the quite bizarre use case of selling and repurchasing a new machine…

> tolerating the slightly thicker build, which is inevitable for highly serviceable machines I'm in the same boat, and I actually think the lack of serviceability is a feature. On the x220 you can change the disk, the memory and the keyboard just by unscrewing a few screws. On newer laptops, including the whole Thinkpad line, you'll eventually end up breaking little pieces of plastic involved in holding the bottom of…

I upgraded the RAM on my T470P a while back and there wasn't anything to break really, the clips where robust and it was 7 screws to take the back off.

It wasn't noticeably different to my R50 a long time ago.

Re: Linux touchpad like a Macbook: goal worth pursuing?

#246

Post by rxhernandez »

rayiner wrote: post #236
peterburkimsher wrote: post #140

I'll volunteer 2 months full-time development for free, with a few conditions. - I'm looking for a job in New Zealand, Australia, or Canada. Not Seattle (sorry Bill). I'd stop job hunting to work on this, so someone else will have to find me a job. - I'd develop for the MacBook Pro 2014, because that's my hardware. Only one Linux distro (probably Ubuntu). - Weekly check-in emails (maybe twice a week). A plan set out…

I hate to be negative, but what makes you think you can do in two months what Microsoft has failed to do in several years (Microsoft's Precision Touchpad is still a ways away from a Mac touchpad).

Who ever accused Microsoft of always doing their best to have the best product on the market at all costs?

Re: Linux touchpad like a Macbook: goal worth pursuing?

#247

Post by fbender »

tbrock wrote: post #115
micheljansen wrote: post #29

The touchpad experience of the Mac is where vertical integration really shines. The touchpad is so good precisely because there are not hundreds of hardware variants to support. Just the one that Apple used in their past X years of MacBooks (so never more than a hand-full). And they make their own OS and drivers. Doing this for all laptops Linux could possibly run on is almost impossible. It’s a shame that touchpad (…

There cannot be THAT many different touch pads or drivers for them out there that this is impossible. I bet there are only three or four types of main brands at most which probably all come from the same factory in China. It’s not like every time a new pc laptop comes out the dell and HP folks say: “Yee haw! Roll up yer sleeves boys, it’s time to write another touchpad driver!” That’s just insanity.

Not knowing how any of this works, I think best would be having a driver that translates the raw signals into an intermediate, near-native form, i.e. basically provide a standard range X-Y-Z vector (z for Pointer intensity) with good enough (very high) resolution per touch point. Single-Touch devices will only ever get one touch point, those that have no concept of intensity will have a constant or binary Z value. Those measuring pointer-size can set the Z-value accordingly (that‘s how I think intensity is measured anyway).

Then allow per-device configs with (basically) calibration curves. Allow for different kinds of curves (discrete value interpolation, Bezier, you name it). This enables the driver to support a lot of different devices. Bonus points if the driver can tell the firmware about the calibrations (I‘d bet quite a few touchpads have their own logic built-in).

Also the driver must support some curve and noise dampening as well as progressive acceleration (basically inflating calibrated numbers with higher speed of moving touch points and rapid succession of the same gesture) and thus also understand some „higher level“ gesture logic, e.g. to properly support the right feeling for touchpad scrolling as Macs do.

Re: Linux touchpad like a Macbook: goal worth pursuing?

#248

Post by nogridbag »

trash_panda wrote: post #181
MrLeftHand wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel your pain. Ubuntu Desktop was my preferred go to distro not too long ago. Using 16.10 was nice and I managed to get the touchpad working in a reasonable way with xinput. Then 18 came along and everything went to hell. All the properties changed and some even disappeared. And of course the ones missing were the ones I actually needed to make my touchpad work in a way that it was comfortable to use. After that I…

Reading this thread makes me wonder if I live in the same universe as HN. I'm amazed at the level of exquisiteness of the requirements of the HN crowd. I mean, I've been using computers all my life and used almost every Linux, Windows and OS X systems. I do get that Macbook touchpads are god-tier and unrivaled so far by other hardware manufacturers. That being said, I rather have my old Lenovo x220 with an external m…

People choose a Macbook because they can walk into an Apple store and walk out with a quality product. Compared to the average PC a macbook has:

  * Better display
  * Faster hard drive
  * Better battery life
  * God-tier touchpad :)
  * Premium build quality and materials
  * Better sound
  * Better resale value
  * An Apple store nearby where they can get factory support
Sure there are laptops which are superior in certain aspects if you are willing to do some research or are very knowledgable in tech. If the average person walks into Best Buy and limits their options just to Lenovo and a device with the word "Yoga" in the name, they may walk out with an X1 Yoga, X380 Yoga, L380 Yoga, Yoga 260, Yoga 11e Chromebook, Yoga 920, Yoga 730, Yoga 720, or Yoga 710. I couldn't tell you the difference between most of these and I spent a long time researching convertible laptops.

Re: Linux touchpad like a Macbook: goal worth pursuing?

#249

Post by nkristoffersen »

greenhatman wrote: post #233
peterburkimsher wrote: post #140

I'll volunteer 2 months full-time development for free, with a few conditions. - I'm looking for a job in New Zealand, Australia, or Canada. Not Seattle (sorry Bill). I'd stop job hunting to work on this, so someone else will have to find me a job. - I'd develop for the MacBook Pro 2014, because that's my hardware. Only one Linux distro (probably Ubuntu). - Weekly check-in emails (maybe twice a week). A plan set out…

Sorry if this is a stupid question, but do we need new Linux drivers for MacBook touch pads? Mine is working fine on my 2015 MackBook with Linux Mint. Am I missing something obvious?

I’m not sure but when I tried using my external mac touchpad on Ubuntu it wouldn’t handle scrolling (two fingers).

Re: Linux touchpad like a Macbook: goal worth pursuing?

#250

Post by innocenat »

na85 wrote: post #230
trash_panda wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Reading this thread makes me wonder if I live in the same universe as HN. I'm amazed at the level of exquisiteness of the requirements of the HN crowd. I mean, I've been using computers all my life and used almost every Linux, Windows and OS X systems. I do get that Macbook touchpads are god-tier and unrivaled so far by other hardware manufacturers. That being said, I rather have my old Lenovo x220 with an external m…

Where do you work that you have room to use a mouse? Coffee shops, planes, trains, passenger seat in a car, literally on my lap in waiting rooms or transit terminals, etc. This is where I use my laptop, and I don't have room for a mouse in these places.

I put the mouse on my touchpad. Works well rnough
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