I would leave sooner rather than later. Maybe read a few articles about the Theranos debacle if you can't readily grasp why. Lying to investors goes by an ugly F word: Fraud. It can involve jail time and it can hint at a willingness to do worse things. /personal opinion, not based on actually having worked for such a company
Ask HN: Have any of you left a startup that was selling snake oil?
21–30 of 46 posts
Re: Ask HN: Have any of you left a startup that was selling snake oil?
#22What you are describing doesn't sound so far off from say "IBM Watson" ;) There are so many companies doing real work in AI. NVidia for example. Or Waymo. You could even start a GPU Cloud services business. Or seek an advanced degree in academia. Best of luck!
Re: Ask HN: Have any of you left a startup that was selling snake oil?
#23Earlier quoted context omitted.
Lying to investors is not okay, and OP describes a CEO who they believe is flagrantly lying. This is a kind of "excitement" no company needs.
> This is a kind of "excitement" no company needs. Citation needed? It would be good to have a (probably impossible to perform) study that compares the performance of companies where CEO is lying vs the ones where they're only telling the truth. From my personal experience, I've seen a lot of success built on lies.
The two of you have different priorities. You are both right and both wrong.
It's not really the kind of thing that requires a citation. However it's trivial to Google and see there are a whole range of opinions on the matter.
Re: Ask HN: Have any of you left a startup that was selling snake oil?
#24I would leave sooner rather than later. Maybe read a few articles about the Theranos debacle if you can't readily grasp why. Lying to investors goes by an ugly F word: Fraud. It can involve jail time and it can hint at a willingness to do worse things. /personal opinion, not based on actually having worked for such a company
Right. Lying to users is one thing; growth must be prioritized or the business might fail so lying to customers is excusable. But, lying to honorable(i.e. wealthy and charitable) investors is morally corrupt.
Re: Ask HN: Have any of you left a startup that was selling snake oil?
#25Are you directly involved in the meetings the CEO is having with investors? Do you have first hand knowledge of how the investors are reacting to what the CEO is saying? Is what you are saying based on your experience in those meetings, or from other conversations with your CEO? Remember that your CEO may have conversations with you that don't, in any way, reflect the conversations they are having with investors.
The world of business and money is filled with hype, painting pictures, "vision for the future", etc. Startups, Big and Small Tech Companies, Non-Tech Companies, it's all the same if you're trying to get VC money or budgets. What's comfortable for CEOs,VCs, and marketing may not be comfortable for somebody in a technical role. The people investing the money or approving the budget need to do their due diligence properly.
Rather than asking about your CEO, ask yourself if your own sense of morality is being violated. I've been in a similar situations before, where the company I worked was using consulting hours to sell a terrible (in my view) Data Science product. The "Product" did more to satisfy the person signing the purchase order than anybody who actually had to use it. That being said, all the consultants were sincere and the customers were really happy with the work we did, even if they had to buy that terrible product to get more time from the consultants.
If you are enjoying the work and doing right by your customers, then let yourself enjoy it. If your CEO is saying you are doing cutting edge cancer research with your product and you are running the models for a active clinical trial, find another job!!
Re: Ask HN: Have any of you left a startup that was selling snake oil?
#26Earlier quoted context omitted.
Right. Lying to users is one thing; growth must be prioritized or the business might fail so lying to customers is excusable. But, lying to honorable(i.e. wealthy and charitable) investors is morally corrupt.
The OP only mentions misleading investors, and my impression from the OP is that the clients themselves are getting the consulting services that they're being sold on.
Re: Ask HN: Have any of you left a startup that was selling snake oil?
#27I detect that from the beginning now. In your case it can't become big because consulting doesn't scale. As they are into AI, they won't even think at trying to scale consulting. Next time, negotiate nothing less than cofounder at least to get a control over the purpose of the company.
IBM disagrees
Re: Ask HN: Have any of you left a startup that was selling snake oil?
#28I would leave sooner rather than later. Maybe read a few articles about the Theranos debacle if you can't readily grasp why. Lying to investors goes by an ugly F word: Fraud. It can involve jail time and it can hint at a willingness to do worse things. /personal opinion, not based on actually having worked for such a company
Right. Lying to users is one thing; growth must be prioritized or the business might fail so lying to customers is excusable. But, lying to honorable(i.e. wealthy and charitable) investors is morally corrupt.
Re: Ask HN: Have any of you left a startup that was selling snake oil?
#29Re: Ask HN: Have any of you left a startup that was selling snake oil?
#30It doesn't sound like snake oil. It does seem like you are actually building AI solutions, and guess what, you said it yourself: "this is totally fine by me, because it's really interesting and fun" The founder needs to do what he has to fund the dream while it is still amorphous. Once you've done enough consulting, hopefully you will be able to re-use some of what you've done over time, and start focusing on a singl…