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Twitch streamers who spend years broadcasting to no one

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Re: Twitch streamers who spend years broadcasting to no one

#281

What I don't understand about Twitch is how anyone has time to consume this content. When it comes to sitting on your butt and watching something, the traditional TV show is moving to an on-demand model. Twitch is a step in the other direction, where if you faithfully consume content from any Twitch channel, you have to sit down and watch for hours every night when the streamer is online. Who does that? I imagine it'…

I'm a business owner, dad, amatuer athlete, and watch a LOT of Twitch.

It plays in the background when I'm grinding on work stuff late at night, or when I want to do SOMETHING that isn't watching TV. Much less commitment and effort than the games themselves, and feels about the same.

Re: Twitch streamers who spend years broadcasting to no one

#282

I personally know Markipler (youtube, 23M+) as well as follow some other people here and there. There is a youtuber; BloominBanana I subbed around the same time I subbed to Markipler 2010ish, they both do (did?) the same horror gameplay except Bloomin' has about 12 subs on youtube. Mark as I knew him was the king of 'going out there' he was never afraid of marketing, publicity stunts and was honestly humble to his hu…

> Growing organically isn't possible

I’m not sure I entirely agree with this.

I used to watch a few Youtubers like Ethoslab, Davidr64yt, Caliform, TheTolhe, etc. that seemed to grow completely organically. I’ve never seen them do any kind of “marketing” for their channel nor clickbait bullshit and they seem to have made it anyway. I think luck plays a big part in this, as well as your experience & charisma when doing your initial vidéos (if those suck, most viewers will just move on instead of giving you a chance to get better as time goes).

Re: Twitch streamers who spend years broadcasting to no one

#283
I streamed myself programming several times. Just having to narrate what I am doing kept me in focus. As a programmer, it is fairly hard to get "in the zone" and stay there, especially when there are rare interruptions. Streaming helped me keep chugging along creating more and more code and TDD without falling to the seduction of visiting social news sites.

What I am saying, is that I was streaming for myself mostly. Got lots of value from it. It didn't really matter if there were viewers or not.

Re: Twitch streamers who spend years broadcasting to no one

#284
People who are amazing do grow organically, with just a little PR work. People who are fun to watch turn random introductions into an audience.

You get constant growth for free with .... As long as your content is converting watchers to subscribers a low constant growth is plenty to seed the network.

Streamers are not “doing simple things to build their audience” because they don’t really want an audience: they want validation. Whatever trickle of exposure they get is enough to signal to them that they’re not converting people because they’re not winning anyone over. You don’t need a lot of data points for that to become very clear.

The only way to break out of that is experimentation. And a lot of streamers aren’t really.

Re: Twitch streamers who spend years broadcasting to no one

#285

Having spent literally hundreds of hours producing video game content for youtube and twitch, I can say this: It's an incredibly sad, discouraging experience even if you get traction (and I got some traction). It's also utterly hollow: your entire existence is as a wrapper around the content folks actually want to see. The most successful streamers develop their own brand, but these people are the 0.5%, the Felixs an…

> your entire existence is as a wrapper around the content folks actually want to see Yeah, what sets popular streamers apart is that their 'wrapper' is distinctive and entertaining in its own right. Everyone is showing much the same product; what can you put around it that's different? Kind of like selling fizzy drinks, I guess.

Sort of. I've been making art for a long time, went to school for it.

People want to see themselves in whatever you produce for them. It's that simple. They want something they identify with.

Artists and content developers can have more fun playing with it because they have different meaning spaces - they see connections across content that is still self identity, it's just across a different set of things. It can be competitive and draining though, so one must use their energy wisely.

Crowds can be fickle in general, so it can as well be exhausting staying plugged into them, producing just for them, without any way of receiving meaningful feedback.

It's not that people are narcissists at heart, it's just that they don't want to pay attention to things to things that don't make sense to them on any level. That's pretty normal.

Re: Twitch streamers who spend years broadcasting to no one

#286
post #279

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah. Speaking as someone who ran a rather large fansite about NIN in the 2000s (the entity now basically exists as a Twitter account), you really cannot just "grow organically" on today's internet. I like to tell people I have a marketing allergy. Self-promotion feels gross. The "if you build it, they will come" mantra from Field of Dreams is not applicable to a world where so much more content is being created than…

> The "if you build it, they will come" mantra from Field of Dreams is not applicable to a world where so much more content is being created than can possibly be consumed. This resonates with me deeply. I've always lived by that sentiment. It's also one of the reasons I love the points systems on Reddit and Hacker News, as it's the fairest way to objectively rank things people make, rather than by how much advertisin…

It's kind of broken though as most people will only view the most upvoted comments because once again there's just so much content it's impossible to view it all, so you upvote what's already been upvoted. If you're there first you generally will get a lot of karma even if better comments come later.

Re: Twitch streamers who spend years broadcasting to no one

#287
post #264

Having spent literally hundreds of hours producing video game content for youtube and twitch, I can say this: It's an incredibly sad, discouraging experience even if you get traction (and I got some traction). It's also utterly hollow: your entire existence is as a wrapper around the content folks actually want to see. The most successful streamers develop their own brand, but these people are the 0.5%, the Felixs an…

Similar boat of making Minecraft videos in the past (2011-2014). It was mostly just my friend and I playing through various Minecraft adventure/puzzle maps. We got a couple dozen to a hundred followers through luck/timing (playing new maps that later become popular) but didn't get too far. Then one day my friend on a whim did a skit that ended up doing very well (it got featured on wired.com and even posted on HN [1]…

I watched your video and I think you would do a lot better if you used your real voice instead of a computer generated voice. The content is great though.

Re: Twitch streamers who spend years broadcasting to no one

#288

What I don't understand about Twitch is how anyone has time to consume this content. When it comes to sitting on your butt and watching something, the traditional TV show is moving to an on-demand model. Twitch is a step in the other direction, where if you faithfully consume content from any Twitch channel, you have to sit down and watch for hours every night when the streamer is online. Who does that? I imagine it'…

I'm in my late 30s, and my girlfriend and I are currently streaming more Twitch than Netflix. There's a use case where sometimes you want something on in the background while you're doing other things. Usually we'd stream Netflix shows we've watched already, but after doing that the 10th time for a show, it gets stale.

When you find a streamer you like, it can be very relaxing. It's also introduced us to games we wouldn't play otherwise. My girlfriend hates anything scary, but we found a great stream of Last Of Us that made it really fun. I've also discovered new games to play through it.

So much depends on the streamer, though. If you don't get it, you probably haven't found the right one for you.

Re: Twitch streamers who spend years broadcasting to no one

#289
post #283

I streamed myself programming several times. Just having to narrate what I am doing kept me in focus. As a programmer, it is fairly hard to get "in the zone" and stay there, especially when there are rare interruptions. Streaming helped me keep chugging along creating more and more code and TDD without falling to the seduction of visiting social news sites. What I am saying, is that I was streaming for myself mostly.…

I actually found myself doing somewhat similar when playing digital card games like Magic: The Gathering online and Shadowverse: I would "think out loud" and talk through the lines I was considering them ("Hmm, if I attack like this, then he probably double blocks me, so I don't want to do that...") and also audibly reacting to things that were happening in the game ("...oh, I totally didn't expect that. I got greedy, and my opponent was in a position to punish me. I should have been playing more conservatively.") Whenever I do this, it really forces me to stop playing on "auto-pilot" and actually think about the lines I'm taking, and also better internalize the lessons I'm learning through experience.

The difference is that I don't actually stream myself as I'm doing this: I talk the same way a streamer would talk, but the walls of my home office are the only audience. I actually kind of "learned" this approach from watching Magic: The Gathering Youtubers and streamers, who do the "thinking out loud" approach as a way of teaching strategy, but one of the lessons I picked up is that in the process of thinking out loud, these players sometimes seem to talk themselves out of making inadvisable plays, so I decided to try it for myself, minus the audience, and found that it often caused me to play better and learn better. (Of course, this "skill" doesn't really translate over quite as well to tournament Magic when you're sitting across a table from your opponent, but playing better in online practice often translates into playing better in a tournament setting.)

Third-hand story: friend of friend has a nephew who spends a lot of time playing Minecraft (grade school age), and as he explores the world, he narrates everything he does in a calm British accent. It's kind of surreal that this genre of Youtube videos (Mincraft Let's Plays by Englishmen speaking with a David Attenborough-like cadence) has taught a generation of kids that this is how people play Minecraft. It reminds me a bit of kids I've seen in youth sports leagues who sometimes make a big show of stomping off in a huff or yelling a soft expletive like "Darn!" when something doesn't go their way, not because they're actually frustrated or invested in the outcome of the game, but because they're mimicking the kind of behavior they've seen from professional athletes on TV. (That's not to say that there aren't kids who get genuinely frustrated during these games, but the more time I spend observing kids in "organized recreation," the more I come to realize just how much of their behavior is performative.)

Re: Twitch streamers who spend years broadcasting to no one

#290

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> your entire existence is as a wrapper around the content folks actually want to see Yeah, what sets popular streamers apart is that their 'wrapper' is distinctive and entertaining in its own right. Everyone is showing much the same product; what can you put around it that's different? Kind of like selling fizzy drinks, I guess.

Sort of. I've been making art for a long time, went to school for it. People want to see themselves in whatever you produce for them. It's that simple. They want something they identify with. Artists and content developers can have more fun playing with it because they have different meaning spaces - they see connections across content that is still self identity, it's just across a different set of things. It can be…

> People want to see themselves in whatever you produce for them. It's that simple.

Funny thing is comrade Tocqueville hit on that upon looking at the USA for a couple of months almost two centuries ago.

Something along the lines of "democratic peoples want to hear stories about themselves" (instead of the classics), rather early on the pages of his Democracy in America, writing about theater and culture.

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