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Scaling: Ethereum’s make or break challenge [video]

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Re: Scaling: Ethereum’s make or break challenge [video]

#41
post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you find so interesting in Ethereum Classic? The userbase?

The dude has no clue. Listed 0 applications but said "Yeahh man its gonna happen" Sounds like the idiots on /r/cryptocurrency, doesnt sound like a programmer.

I see a growing interest in ETC, but I do not find any rational reason - except some people considering it could replace ETH in case the chains grows too big.

But if shit hits the fan, ETH could decide to do something serious itself.

I just don't understand it.

Re: Scaling: Ethereum’s make or break challenge [video]

#42
post #32
post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

plenty of what you say is just not right (or plain wrong). btc = monetary/value transactions. i read the paper as early and 2008 and didn't miss out on it, i just didn't care then same as i don't care now. eth = dapps. just because dapps didn't take off immediately doesn't mean they aren't beginning to get used, increasingly so, and that there isn't a lot of valuable, useful, interesting and innovative applications b…

What do you find so interesting in Ethereum Classic? The userbase?

didn't say i find anything all that interesting about Ethereum Classic. didn't jump in with the intention of promoting or defending a position either, but both responses following my post seem eager to shove things down my throat, not sure why.

but if you want to know what i find interesting far as ethereum apps go, i can list those: Augur, MakerDAO, DAOStack. those are examples of efforts that regardless of what goes down would not have been in vain and have already made significant contributions to the better understanding of things in their respective domains.

ETC, can't say so much about, they seem a little hush hush, but they recently did launch a complementary chain dedicated to smart contract security audits for both ETH and ETC (but paid for from their treasury), and i also think the proposed ERC-223 (by an ETC member) makes a lot of sense and personally hope that it does get approved to substitute the current ERC-20. overall, i just wouldn't disregard the efforts made.

and i think i'm more or less keeping my tone civil, no? too much to ask for the same? (directed at the person below, that)

Re: Scaling: Ethereum’s make or break challenge [video]

#43
post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The dude has no clue. Listed 0 applications but said "Yeahh man its gonna happen" Sounds like the idiots on /r/cryptocurrency, doesnt sound like a programmer.

I see a growing interest in ETC, but I do not find any rational reason - except some people considering it could replace ETH in case the chains grows too big. But if shit hits the fan, ETH could decide to do something serious itself. I just don't understand it.

well, it's under the umbrella of IOHK, they particularly emphasize security, take a slow, deliberate and conservative approach to how they do things, in addition to this: https://callisto.network/

i don't find it all that surprising.

i also don't see ETH and ETC as being in competition. and i hold both as well. :)

i can see a scenario where some applications are housed by ETC and others by ETH. sky rocketing gas prices and transaction fees kinda defeat the purpose i'd say (for anybody other than speculators and miners), and given the network load sometimes, that would make a lot of sense until some working scalability solutions are in place.

Re: Scaling: Ethereum’s make or break challenge [video]

#44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

XRP is a currency, ETH is supposed to be a smart contract platform. I believe in cryptoCURRENCY, as people do pay extra for validation in currency. XRP and Monero are both designed for payments. ETH, is being used as a currency, but this is a mistake. ETH is designed to run apps, and is doing that poorly.

I would say that Ethereum is the smart contract platform, but that Ether (ETH) is a currency. That's based both on how it's used, and on how the protocol separates normal transactions from smart contract interactions (including token transfers). I like the fungibility that Monero offers (making it similar to cash), but I just can't wrap my head around Ripple. I always associated cryptocurrencies with decentralized an…

Ripple is decentralized, in the technical sense.

If you are a programmer you will appreciate this. It explains the consensus protocol in detail. I found it fascinating: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w4jq4frE5v4

Re: Scaling: Ethereum’s make or break challenge [video]

#45
An important thing to remember is how jaw-droppingly terrible Ethereum is. The cost to perform one million adds is about $30. Storage costs $5 million / GB. That's on the order of 10^9 times worse than a normal system. If these people managed to make Ethereum three orders of magnitude more efficient without any compromise (which will never happen), it would still be so inefficient that I would struggle to think of a use case.

Ethereum isn't merely useless. It's so terrible that it transcends the human brain's sense of scale. If I were a malicious person spreading misinformation I wouldn't have the audacity to make up numbers as bad as the reality.

[1] https://hackernoon.com/ether-purchase-power-df40a38c5a2f

Re: Scaling: Ethereum’s make or break challenge [video]

#46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is the worry that there might be a whole new set of problems that will arise with this system. The other worry I have, and where I think, in the long run I will probably be right, is that, when the system collapses and cryptocurrencies' price crashes, nobody except for these few individuals will care for any philosophic reasons to support this product. People invested in crypto to make money, not to support fre…

This is why Bitcoin seems the most secure. 9 years of not breaking is pretty good. Things like IOTA and Nano use verification methods that are untested. ETH just seems wayy to expensive in POW, and seeing how they are already getting spammed in POW, POS seems insane.

is there any place anywhere a person can avoid encounters with you people? i open my mouth about anything, related or not these days, and some btc jihadist immediately jumps out of somewhere to come poke me in the eye.

Re: Scaling: Ethereum’s make or break challenge [video]

#47
post #7

Ethereum is novel and ambitious technology. In my mind, and I think in the minds of most in the community, scaling had always been the big, important challenge on the horizon - but it builds confidence to see just how far the devs (and community) have brought it till now. It's like everything is in place for that final push over the mountain.

One thing to keep in mind is that most "scalable" apps (top 100 most popular websites like search, videos, social networking, forums, etc.) don't need double-spend resistant ledgers.

They just need decentralized and cryptographically verified guarantees, like with what decentralized Reddit (notabug.io) and other apps, built on our system ( https://github.com/amark/gun ), that is already pushing terabytes traffic weekly in production.

The future for scaling is more about working around double-spend/blockchain than trying to make double-spend/blockchain systems themselves to be scalable (trying to do that would require violating various CAP Theorem / physics rules).

Re: Scaling: Ethereum’s make or break challenge [video]

#48
post #37
post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's easy to scale when your transactions are basically only tcp/ip messages between trusted nodes. There has to be a bettwer way...I'm personally in favor of dPoS (delegated proof of stake) networks, that can have high throughput without sacrificing decentralization, with consensus achieved by representatives that can be changed by everyone in the network. Still, xrp might have applications in the banking world, tim…

I am concerned that dPOS will lead to cartel like organizations in the long run as the rich get richer and can vote for themselves

AFAIK, all dPoS systems have so far proven to fairly quickly spiral into what you just described. Waves uses a leased PoS that might be worth exploring in more detail (or I've been meaning to anyway).

Re: Scaling: Ethereum’s make or break challenge [video]

#49
post #34
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Offtopic. DLT is basically a marketing fraud. Both "permissioned" and "permissionless" DLT are packed into one term. Problem is - they are vastly different. Permissioned DLT is not interesting at all from technical and social point of view. We knew how to do them for a long long time. Openness, permissionless is the key innovation introduced with Bitcoin. "Permissioned blockchains" are just repackaged tech with lot o…

Why is it a marketing fraud? As a mathematician, I can see the solution of a fully public permissionless DLT as long as (1) there is a PKI — not too hard to accomplish, (2) the generation time of ZKPs and SMPC can cross below the network latency threshold — to which I can say that I know researchers in the space and even a simple run rate calculations indicates this will be feasible soon... I wonder whether your stan…

I think there is some typo in your comment - because otherwise - do you mean that permissionless DLT was obvious (as in anyone who read Foundations of Cryptography by Oded Goldreich could create it) and bitcoin was not a breakthrough?

Re: Scaling: Ethereum’s make or break challenge [video]

#50
post #26
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Offtopic. DLT is basically a marketing fraud. Both "permissioned" and "permissionless" DLT are packed into one term. Problem is - they are vastly different. Permissioned DLT is not interesting at all from technical and social point of view. We knew how to do them for a long long time. Openness, permissionless is the key innovation introduced with Bitcoin. "Permissioned blockchains" are just repackaged tech with lot o…

100%: Bitcoin was the first known solution for the double spend problem in a permissionless network while DLT doesn't have any dependency to this innovation. What companies want to sell for DLTs is the vision of a "API 3.0" where different organizations make agreements with smart contracts instead of negotiating bilateral or multilateral protocols. The truth is that the hard problem here is the political and organiza…

Very well put.
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