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Ask HN: Living overseas with a profitable online business

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Re: Ask HN: Living overseas with a profitable online business

#21

Post by [deleted] »

pmjordan wrote: post #8
aeden wrote: post #2

I just recently moved from the US, where my own company is based, to France, where my wife is from. I am still learning about the complications, but I can tell you of some of the challenges I've already dealt with: Currency exchange: rates fluctuate on a regular basis and that makes budgeting a challenge. Sometimes you win and sometimes you lose depending on how the currencies move. Insurance: health insurance by a p…

I hope this helps. Basically my suggestion is retain your UK residence and take extended "vacations" in countries you want to visit - it'll be a lot less of a hassle then trying to immigrate. You will want to be very, very careful with that. I'm neither a lawyer nor an accountant, but the tax rules for US citizens are very different from pretty much everyone else. Tax authorities will generally not be happy if you tr…

[deleted]

Re: Ask HN: Living overseas with a profitable online business

#22

Post by andreshb »

It seems to me all the answers so far make it look far more complicated than what it actually is.

What I've done is just travel as tourist staying in each country around 3 months.

When I "lived" in Chile I just took weekend 'visa vacations' to Argentina and had my stay extended for another 90 days.

Nothing changed in terms of taxes for me, since I never really become resident of another country.

Earning money online definitely makes things easier since you never have to be paid as a local in whatever country you are at, therefore, not working there illegally or anything like that.

I am not sure how much money your online business makes you, but I usually aim for developing countries, where you can easily live on US $800 - $1200 tops a month. Like bradleyjoyce said I would recommend Latin America. I've lived/traveled/worked in Colombia, Chile, Peru, Argentina, Mexico.

Also, very important, make sure you have someone reliable back home that can help you deal with administrative/misc., stuff like depositing a check, receiving important mail, faxing stuff, and the sort of things you may not be able to do online.

Re: Ask HN: Living overseas with a profitable online business

#23

Post by pmjordan »

[deleted] wrote: post #21
pmjordan wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hope this helps. Basically my suggestion is retain your UK residence and take extended "vacations" in countries you want to visit - it'll be a lot less of a hassle then trying to immigrate. You will want to be very, very careful with that. I'm neither a lawyer nor an accountant, but the tax rules for US citizens are very different from pretty much everyone else. Tax authorities will generally not be happy if you tr…

[deleted]

This won't affect you if it's literally just a short vacation or even a business trip[1]. However, even if primary residence is only de-facto (generally, more than half a year spent at that location) you will probably be on the hook for tax. So beware of that 27-week holiday or business trip.

[1] exception: if you actually take payment in that location, e.g. selling stuff at a trade show, you need to register the business at the location you're visiting for that time as you are now operating from that country for VAT purposes. Ugh! VAT is a whole new can of worms anyway.

Re: Ask HN: Living overseas with a profitable online business

#24

Post by gommm »

I've been doing that for a few years now, first working in Japan, then living for some time in Malaysia, Thailand and China before deciding on settling here for some time..

For Japan, I was working there for a Japanese company so it's a bit different...

For visas in Malaysia and Thailand, I just switched between both countries for 2-3 months at a time (but stayed more in Malaysia), so I didn't need a visa for such a short time (as a french citizen). Since, my official country of residence at the time was france, I didn't have to pay any taxes. One word of caution, after one year of doing that it started becoming harder to get in Malaysia... So, it's not a long term solution...

For China, I've been here under a business visa. According to Chinese law, as long as I'm not a permanent resident (stayed more than 5 years with less than 90 days each year out of the country), I don't have to pay taxes on income outside of China.

Regarding health care, I'm using this insurance www.aplusii.com It's aimed at expats, costs 300 euros/months for me and my wife and covers us everywhere in the world except US and Canada (and then it does cover us there in case of accidents). I found them through a broker and would recommend you to consult one just to make sure you are covered in case of problems.

To keep costs low, it's a good idea to try and rent apartments for at least one month in each location instead of going to hotels. You get a better view of how people actually live there and it's much cheaper.

You can contact me if you have any questions (or decide to drop by in Shanghai), my email is in my profile.

Re: Ask HN: Living overseas with a profitable online business

#25

Post by kanwisher »

pmjordan wrote: post #13
kanwisher wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would totally agree with the "extended" vacations it's going to give you less grief then trying to understand tax law in every country. Plus proving to your home country your really living abroad.

Sorry, refusing to understand local tax law, or refusing to pay someone who understands it is terrible advice. Ignorance is not a valid defense.

So if your a citizen of the UK and your earning income online to your UK business what does concern does say Guatemala have on your money if your living there on a tourist visa. No money is being created locally. You going to start a new business in every port you land on? Do you pay taxes to the local government when you go on vacation?

Re: Ask HN: Living overseas with a profitable online business

#26

Post by muhfuhkuh »

jacquesm wrote: post #3

I've done it for a couple of years (5 in all), from the Netherlands to Canada. It cost an arm and a leg, but I wouldn't have missed it for the world. As for taxes, the rule in my case was that as soon as I spent more than half a year per year in the one country that one became the one where I paid my taxes. I did create a corporation in Canada in order to have a bigger footprint and to help with the immigration proce…

But, I keep hearing and reading all of these "horror stories" about people waiting up to even TEN YEARS for immigration applications to get approval, particularly in Canada. The minimum I've read has always been over a year's wait, which still seems really long to me in this age of instant gratification.

Did you just go to those places as a visitor and lived there while applying for a more permanent residency or did you do a temporary work visa or something else?

These questions coming from an American wanting to immigrate to Canada as a first choice, but is seriously looking at S and SE Asia as well.

Re: Ask HN: Living overseas with a profitable online business

#27

Post by pmjordan »

kanwisher wrote: post #25
pmjordan wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry, refusing to understand local tax law, or refusing to pay someone who understands it is terrible advice. Ignorance is not a valid defense.

So if your a citizen of the UK and your earning income online to your UK business what does concern does say Guatemala have on your money if your living there on a tourist visa. No money is being created locally. You going to start a new business in every port you land on? Do you pay taxes to the local government when you go on vacation?

There is a difference between a vacation or business trip and residence. Many countries will treat you as resident if you stay there for more than half of the tax year, regardless of whether you say it's a holiday. It's quite possible that some don't, but you'd better know for sure.

Re: Ask HN: Living overseas with a profitable online business

#28

Post by jacquesm »

muhfuhkuh wrote: post #26
jacquesm wrote: post #3

I've done it for a couple of years (5 in all), from the Netherlands to Canada. It cost an arm and a leg, but I wouldn't have missed it for the world. As for taxes, the rule in my case was that as soon as I spent more than half a year per year in the one country that one became the one where I paid my taxes. I did create a corporation in Canada in order to have a bigger footprint and to help with the immigration proce…

But, I keep hearing and reading all of these "horror stories" about people waiting up to even TEN YEARS for immigration applications to get approval, particularly in Canada. The minimum I've read has always been over a year's wait, which still seems really long to me in this age of instant gratification. Did you just go to those places as a visitor and lived there while applying for a more permanent residency or did…

Ten years is not that bad actually, I can point you to a family that has been living there for 30 years and they still don't have their status.

As for the process, there are different 'routes', I picked the entrepreneur/investor route through the Buffalo office, I was / am fairly well connected and in spite of all that (and employing a bunch of people and some major investments).

My visum was a temporary work permit until landed immigrant status would be given but I never reached that stage.

Canadian immigration usually was quite ok when dealing with them at the airport (once every two weeks for two years), but I've had my frustrating encounters too, with hours of waiting to be sent on my way within 2 minutes of it being 'my turn'. Road crossings were a mixed bag, sometimes no problem at all, sometimes a big hassle when someone decided to pretend they're guarding Canada from all those Dutch terrorists they've been having lately.

We ended up going back because we had had enough of it. The schools in the area where we lived (rural Northern Ontario) didn't help either and the weather is simply brutal out there.

But again, I do not regret having done this, it gave me a completely new perspective on life and living.

Re: Ask HN: Living overseas with a profitable online business

#29

Post by jacquesm »

pmjordan wrote: post #8
aeden wrote: post #2

I just recently moved from the US, where my own company is based, to France, where my wife is from. I am still learning about the complications, but I can tell you of some of the challenges I've already dealt with: Currency exchange: rates fluctuate on a regular basis and that makes budgeting a challenge. Sometimes you win and sometimes you lose depending on how the currencies move. Insurance: health insurance by a p…

I hope this helps. Basically my suggestion is retain your UK residence and take extended "vacations" in countries you want to visit - it'll be a lot less of a hassle then trying to immigrate. You will want to be very, very careful with that. I'm neither a lawyer nor an accountant, but the tax rules for US citizens are very different from pretty much everyone else. Tax authorities will generally not be happy if you tr…

For almost every set of countries in the 'matrix of possibilities' there is a tax treaty in place these days, your local tax office should be able to tell you quite a bit about the situation once you've settled on a country of your choice.

Re: Ask HN: Living overseas with a profitable online business

#30

Post by jacquesm »

pmjordan wrote: post #27
kanwisher wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So if your a citizen of the UK and your earning income online to your UK business what does concern does say Guatemala have on your money if your living there on a tourist visa. No money is being created locally. You going to start a new business in every port you land on? Do you pay taxes to the local government when you go on vacation?

There is a difference between a vacation or business trip and residence. Many countries will treat you as resident if you stay there for more than half of the tax year, regardless of whether you say it's a holiday. It's quite possible that some don't, but you'd better know for sure.

The optimal solution in that case is to have your UK company earn the money and pay you a stipend on which you pay local taxes if UK taxes for corporations are more favorable than in the place where you live.

But really, you should consult an accountant or tax advisor for hard information after you have decided on a country to go to and for how long you intend to be there.

As a rule, no problem, > 6 months = residence, in between, gray area, leaning towards 'extended holiday'.

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