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Unlike most millennials, Norway's are rich

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Re: Unlike most millennials, Norway's are rich

#201

Post by tor0viking »

ajmurmann wrote: post #195
tor0viking wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Europe is able to keep its colleges and Universities free or mostly free because the European collegiate experience is a much simpler and stripped down version of what you find at US Universities. In the US, living on campus is the norm, a vast array of amenities and services are offered to students, and University bureaucracies are huge and growing by the year. Contrast this with Europe, where many Universities are…

Having studied in both US and Germany, US universities seem to have a much lighter focus on studying itself. The negative view would be that the are a lot more distractions like fraternities, sorts teams etc. Another view would be that there is a strong focus on network building. Fraternities and the whole school loyalty thing are practically made for this. It's a clear advantage to have those connections for the ind…

To be honest I don't like the US model. All the extra fluff isn't helpful in any substantive non-zero-sum way.

You have the freedom to be entirely focused on academics in the US, participating in research etc. But you also have the freedom to live off your loans without any serious focus on academics, treating college like a vacation more than anything else. For the "students" who are tempted by the latter option, college is a waste.

Re: Unlike most millennials, Norway's are rich

#202

Post by jandrewrogers »

mtgx wrote: post #43

> Aarnes’ hourly pay starts at 164 Norwegian kroner (around $20), increasing for weekend and evening shifts. After taxes (which are comparatively high in Scandinavia) he’s left with around 14,000 kroner ($1700) a month, of which he sets aside half for rent, travel and bills and uses the rest for “whatever else” he likes. The likely reason why he can earn this much with a supermarket job is because everyone else has m…

The median disposable income, after all normal life expenses (i.e. the "beer money" leftover) in the US is about $1000/month. The American middle class has quite a bit of money for discretionary spending and can easily afford a $500 emergency.

The oft-repeated "$500 in savings" thing was based on the savings accounts, which most Americans don't use or don't have because they aren't useful. I don't have $500 in a savings account either, but I have much more than $500 in cash available in the case of emergency. That study is frequently misinterpreted; it measured something irrelevant to how Americans manage money.

Re: Unlike most millennials, Norway's are rich

#203

Post by kimdotcom »

maxxxxx wrote: post #75
endymi0n wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my not so humble opinion, it all comes down to a short- vs. farsighted culture and the resulting fundamental attitude towards kids. In the US, kids are seen at worst a nuisance and at best a personal luxury. In most of the northern/western EU, kids are seen as the future workers, decision makers and keepers of the whole economy 30 years into the future. All of the symptoms you are seeing, be it maternal / paternal…

"In the US, kids are seen at worst a nuisance and at best a personal luxury." That's nonsense. The US is all about children. That doesn't result in long term thinking about their education or maternal/parental leave but children are not seen as a nuisance.

I disagree, anecdotally, many of my peers with children recommend not have children and also regret not eloping.

Re: Unlike most millennials, Norway's are rich

#204

Post by yardie »

ajmurmann wrote: post #190
yardie wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The schools aren’t incentivized to recruit more students. And, unlike American universities, you can start and stop studying as you please. France for example, you get a certification for every level you complete. So it’s common to see job descriptions with Bac+2 or Bac+3. Your baccalaureate and 2 years of university. Unlike the all or nothing BA/BS American degree. American universities run on government and private…

I've never heard of Frances intermediate achievements in University. That's great! I think one of the best things that can happen is someone not finding usefulness and meaning in their studies, deciding to work for a few years and then see how learning more would help and go back to University with a internal motivation that's truly driven by curiosity and a desire to get better. Most systems seem to discourage that.…

Yes. When I moved there I had to convert my BS into the French equivalent. A 4-year BS == Bac+3. They also have various vocational and technical degrees that don’t have a US equivalent, like sommelier or vintner.

I wouldn’t necessarily call it better. I have friends who have taken 8+ years to get their Bac+3. The lower tier universities have capacity issues. The class you need may be full and can take years to enroll. Also, with no motivation to pass students you are truly in your own. Things like office hours, tutors, study labs, and the library not being open late like we have in the US. These are surprisingly uncommon in France.

Re: Unlike most millennials, Norway's are rich

#205

Post by kzrdude »

jopsen wrote: post #164
kzrdude wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US cult of the personal interest above all else must have some effect, even on politics. It's a cultural problem, when corruption or self-enrichment is tolerated in public offices where the holders are supposed to act as good stewards of the common project. I think cynicism and acceptance are two sides of the same coin, unfortunately. One cannot cite high tax levels as a downside without looking at what you get f…

I sometimes jokingly view the welfare state with high taxes as an index fund whose underlying assests is people. I like it because there aren't many legal means by which I can invest in humans :) And if you're trying to diversify your portfolio, why wouldn't you want to bet on humans?

Diversifying is a good notion too, since it on average has benefits even though detractors want to hold up individual counterexamples.

Re: Unlike most millennials, Norway's are rich

#206

Post by 3rdAccount »

xvedejas wrote: post #199
3rdAccount wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sure many degree programs in the US are inflated, but it wasn't my experience in the US where engineering professors brag about how many students they failed that semester. "You only had 1/3rd your class drop? You must be getting soft." I had AP Calculus in High School (took school seriously) and had to give 110% to pass engineering school. I never partied and basically lived in study hall. Not everyone has to pu…

This does not seem to be the case in private universities, where high graduation rate is a strongly desired statistic. Maybe one or two people total left my Chemical Engineering class over four years, and usually to switch to something like Chemistry. I'm not sure what kinds of grades were typically passed out, but there always seemed to be strong pressure not to fail students.

Gotcha. I graduated from a public university with a strong engineering college. Typically 50% switch majors sometime during freshman year across the board. They usually then go to computer science, chemistry, or biology. If those degree programs are too hard, they go to business or at least that is the trend many of my fellow students noticed.

Re: Unlike most millennials, Norway's are rich

#207

Post by labcomputer »

jopsen wrote: post #161
pnutjam wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If that is the case, I think revamping the high school requirements would be a better investment.

The problem is that today's generations are joining companies that are heavily specialized. Unlike previous generations which could learn while the company learned. There are some vocational coding schools, but these won't prepare you to do real computer science. There are some vocational carpentry schools with increased focus on AutoCad and other analytical skills. But these won't equipt you to design bridges..

That's true, but it feels like the HS curriculum has gotten easier, too, and that might be part of the reason that a high school diploma isn't valued by employers. My perception (anecdata!) is that helicopter parenting has badgered the faculty such that my niece and nephew have a lower bar than I did for any given letter grade (and that I had it easier than some of my much older cousins).

Another point is that HS graduation rates in the United States have been basically flat (after a long, steady increase) since the 1970's [1], despite constant calls to increase it.

When more than 9 of 10 people already have HS diplomas; when the economic condition of each student's family is highly predictive of graduation; and when and each school tends to have a fairly homogeneous characteristics, it's hard for me to see how you can raise graduation rates without lowering the bar. Unless you're open to adjusting the economic condition around under-performing schools, of course.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Educational_attainment_in_the_...

Re: Unlike most millennials, Norway's are rich

#208

Post by dragonwriter »

labcomputer wrote: post #207
jopsen wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is that today's generations are joining companies that are heavily specialized. Unlike previous generations which could learn while the company learned. There are some vocational coding schools, but these won't prepare you to do real computer science. There are some vocational carpentry schools with increased focus on AutoCad and other analytical skills. But these won't equipt you to design bridges..

That's true, but it feels like the HS curriculum has gotten easier, too, and that might be part of the reason that a high school diploma isn't valued by employers. My perception (anecdata!) is that helicopter parenting has badgered the faculty such that my niece and nephew have a lower bar than I did for any given letter grade (and that I had it easier than some of my much older cousins). Another point is that HS gra…

> That's true, but it feels like the HS curriculum has gotten easier, too, and that might be part of the reason that a high school diploma isn't valued by employers.

Since the early 1990s, what was then a fairly advanced college prep track for math seems to have become the baseline standard, and graduation requirements have increased in other ways. Compared to comparably-named classes, grading or presentation may have become less rigorous, but the baseline curriculum is more advanced, not less.

Re: Unlike most millennials, Norway's are rich

#209

Post by Gargoyle »

3rdAccount wrote: post #206
xvedejas wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This does not seem to be the case in private universities, where high graduation rate is a strongly desired statistic. Maybe one or two people total left my Chemical Engineering class over four years, and usually to switch to something like Chemistry. I'm not sure what kinds of grades were typically passed out, but there always seemed to be strong pressure not to fail students.

Gotcha. I graduated from a public university with a strong engineering college. Typically 50% switch majors sometime during freshman year across the board. They usually then go to computer science, chemistry, or biology. If those degree programs are too hard, they go to business or at least that is the trend many of my fellow students noticed.

There was a saying at my engineering school (and probably others like it):

EE->IE->IM->I'm Out.

Electrical Engineering, Industrial Engineering, Industrial Management, transfer.

Re: Unlike most millennials, Norway's are rich

#210

Post by 67_45 »

The success of Norway lies with the intelligence of of it's population. People attribute it to this or that, some institution or policy. But in reality policies and institutions are concievee of, built, and maintained by the sentiment of the people. They are smart people and they will always be well off considering their circumstances as long as that is true. Furthermore, the intelligence and well-being of the population of every country is the sole source of their outcomes. Endless ruminations on other, higher level things are a complete waste of time.
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