Unlike most millennials, Norway's are rich • Hacker News Board

Re: Unlike most millennials, Norway's are rich

#161

Post by jopsen » Sat, Jul 14, 2018, 1:50 PM UTC

pnutjam wrote: post #158

chx wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This means that at some point, university levels of education will probably become necessary for any employment My father had been the safety laboratory lead at a Hungarian pharmeutical company from 1989 till his retirement about ten years ago (could be a little less). What he told me about has stuck with me: when he started, he could hire people from vocational high schools but by the end, everything they used bec…

If that is the case, I think revamping the high school requirements would be a better investment.

The problem is that today's generations are joining companies that are heavily specialized. Unlike previous generations which could learn while the company learned.

There are some vocational coding schools, but these won't prepare you to do real computer science.

There are some vocational carpentry schools with increased focus on AutoCad and other analytical skills. But these won't equipt you to design bridges..

Re: Unlike most millennials, Norway's are rich

#162

Post by jopsen » Sat, Jul 14, 2018, 1:53 PM UTC

The world is more complex then ever before, is it possible that current generations are behind financially because they needed a longer education?

Is it possible that this will pay off in the long run?

Just wondering, if maybe we're focusing on a phenomenon that haven't played itself out yet. Unless, of course we haven't educated enough of the current generation.

Re: Unlike most millennials, Norway's are rich

#163

Post by sehugg » Sat, Jul 14, 2018, 1:58 PM UTC

chx wrote: post #127

Latty wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If everyone can finish University, then having a university title becomes pointless! Only if the value of a degree is having an edge over others, not if it's value is learning - primary school isn't pointless even though most people master it. This feels like it links back to the same problem as everything else - as time goes on automation removes less skilled jobs, and more and more people will need to do more ski…

> This means that at some point, university levels of education will probably become necessary for any employment My father had been the safety laboratory lead at a Hungarian pharmeutical company from 1989 till his retirement about ten years ago (could be a little less). What he told me about has stuck with me: when he started, he could hire people from vocational high schools but by the end, everything they used bec…

IIRC, the employees at Fairchild Semiconductor hired to develop the first generation of integrated circuits were also all PhDs.

Re: Unlike most millennials, Norway's are rich

#164

Post by jopsen » Sat, Jul 14, 2018, 1:58 PM UTC

kzrdude wrote: post #57

endymi0n wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my not so humble opinion, it all comes down to a short- vs. farsighted culture and the resulting fundamental attitude towards kids. In the US, kids are seen at worst a nuisance and at best a personal luxury. In most of the northern/western EU, kids are seen as the future workers, decision makers and keepers of the whole economy 30 years into the future. All of the symptoms you are seeing, be it maternal / paternal…

The US cult of the personal interest above all else must have some effect, even on politics. It's a cultural problem, when corruption or self-enrichment is tolerated in public offices where the holders are supposed to act as good stewards of the common project. I think cynicism and acceptance are two sides of the same coin, unfortunately. One cannot cite high tax levels as a downside without looking at what you get f…

I sometimes jokingly view the welfare state with high taxes as an index fund whose underlying assests is people.

I like it because there aren't many legal means by which I can invest in humans :)

And if you're trying to diversify your portfolio, why wouldn't you want to bet on humans?

Re: Unlike most millennials, Norway's are rich

#165

Post by flatfilefan » Sat, Jul 14, 2018, 2:00 PM UTC

ipsi wrote: post #139

jonatron wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you make 50k, have a child, and have a student loan, your marginal tax rate becomes 62%, that's 40% (income) +2% (NI) +9% (Loan) + 11% (child benefit reduction). I don't think that's progressive, I think it's excessive taxation.

It goes up to 71% at £100,000+ (then drops again at £123,700), including NI and Student Loans - maybe even over 100%, depending on how much childcare you lose out on. For example, going from £100,000 to £100,001/year immediately costs you 570 hours/year of free childcare (potentially a couple of thousand pounds per year), and all of your tax-free childcare (potentially over a thousand pounds per year). Note that this…

Just ask for a 10k pound rise then instead of a one pound rise. This is my strategy. Better get a 10k rise and pay 6k in taxes on it than not to get a one pound rise to avoid extra taxes altogether.

Re: Unlike most millennials, Norway's are rich

#166

Post by eli_gottlieb » Sat, Jul 14, 2018, 2:01 PM UTC

jopsen wrote: post #161

pnutjam wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If that is the case, I think revamping the high school requirements would be a better investment.

The problem is that today's generations are joining companies that are heavily specialized. Unlike previous generations which could learn while the company learned. There are some vocational coding schools, but these won't prepare you to do real computer science. There are some vocational carpentry schools with increased focus on AutoCad and other analytical skills. But these won't equipt you to design bridges..

Sure, but there's no such thing as a combined education in plant physiology, embedded firmware development, and machine learning, so maybe employers should just get off their high horse and train people.

(This is a reference to several jobs posted at MIT and in other Cambridge, MA workplaces on various occasions.)

Re: Unlike most millennials, Norway's are rich

#167

Post by mockingbirdy » Sat, Jul 14, 2018, 2:08 PM UTC

dotdi wrote: post #89

I'm from the generation mentioned in this article and IMHO, in the developed countries, people like me are poorer than their parents because the rich are getting richer and the "poor", including the middle class, are getting poorer as a direct consequence. I live in central Europe, have a STEM masters degree, my wife a bachelors degree (but is a stay at home mom) and, if we were to buy a house now, I'd be happy if I…

> the rich are getting richer and the "poor", including the middle class, are getting poorer as a direct consequence.

This is correct. That's the reason we have to close the loop holes that make it possible that high-net-worth individuals evade taxes.

Unfortunately, kids are very expensive, some say you have to budget €250k for each kid in total (until they start earning their own money). Most people make approx. €1.25 million in their lifetime, so this is a pretty big part of their lifetime spending (retirement needs another €200-300k). I agree that it's not easy.

I hope that we will be able to solve this problem. Good luck!

edit: removed financial advice.

Re: Unlike most millennials, Norway's are rich

#168

Post by flatfilefan » Sat, Jul 14, 2018, 2:09 PM UTC

franciscop wrote: post #37

DeepYogurt wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If everyone can finish University, then having a university title becomes pointless! Certainly the competitive advantage has decreased over time. Having gone through the US university system myself I can confirm that there is... lets say "inflationary pressure", though I've also been at a european university and the same pressure existed there and for all the same reasons. I agree that the university debt seems to…

Exactly. My point is that US "score inflation" seems to be faster than in Europe. Maybe it has something to do with capitalism/socialism (pleasing the student/client), maybe with culture, maybe with language, etc. I don't know why, but it seems that way for me.

On Cuba the higher education is free but if you study medicine you have to work a few years on a government assignment before you can even choose where to work and you may not emigrate. Sounds pretty draconian but compared with the cabal of the student debt system and the effect it has on the prices of the medical care, maybe not so much?

Re: Unlike most millennials, Norway's are rich

#169

Post by flatfilefan » Sat, Jul 14, 2018, 2:13 PM UTC

angarg12 wrote: post #110

As the article points out, the economic miracle of Norway is fueled by oil and gas, just like Spain economic miracle was fueled by cheap industrial labour and construction decades ago. Unlike Spain, they have been wise enough to use their money to diversify their economy, aware that this won't last forever. Sadly there are few lessons we can learn and apply here to other countries, as not everyone has a tiny populati…

Looks like Spaniards were really keen to build them houses and all EU structural help went into residential construction. OK, young families now own cheep places, but where should they work?

Re: Unlike most millennials, Norway's are rich

#170

Post by yardie » Sat, Jul 14, 2018, 2:16 PM UTC

mac01021 wrote: post #46

franciscop wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry if I wasn't clear, I'm not talking about zero-sum (which should be similar everywhere), I'm talking about Universities becoming easier in USA much faster than in Europe. Example: https://www.theatlantic.com/education/archive/2015/01/same-p...

How do European professors and universities avoid grade inflation? Are their incentives very different?

The schools aren’t incentivized to recruit more students. And, unlike American universities, you can start and stop studying as you please. France for example, you get a certification for every level you complete. So it’s common to see job descriptions with Bac+2 or Bac+3. Your baccalaureate and 2 years of university. Unlike the all or nothing BA/BS American degree.

American universities run on government and private finance. If they don’t graduate a certain percentage of students that financing gets withdrawn. So it’s easy to see where giving better grades leads to higher graduations connected to government financing.