Unlike most millennials, Norway's are rich • Hacker News Board

Re: Unlike most millennials, Norway's are rich

#21

Post by dumb2223 » Sat, Jul 14, 2018, 8:53 AM UTC

franciscop wrote: post #15

As a Spaniard who has discussed this in lenght with many other Europeans[1], it really seems like the US is the main country with the University debt issue. I also really believe that "score inflation" is a big issue mainly in the US. If everyone can finish University, then having a university title becomes pointless! [2] In Spain, Germany, France, Italy, etc if you get a degree in STEM it means you put a lot of effo…

As another Spaniard I agree with you. But degrees about tourism can get you a job here. As I am learning English, I would suggest: Use "at length",don't repeat finish so many times, finish (complete, get, achieve) a degree, become pointless (become less valuable, worthless), which (that) is what I now best. About grade inflation in the US: http://www.gradeinflation.com/,

https://blog.prepscholar.com/average-college-gpa-by-major it seems that Grade inflation is more rampant in non-STEM fields because assignments are usually more open to interpretation,

Re: Unlike most millennials, Norway's are rich

#22

Post by mockingbirdy » Sat, Jul 14, 2018, 8:58 AM UTC

I'm seriously impressed:

See the national debt of Norway (34.33% of GDP) - this is insanely low for developed countries.

For comparison: US - 107.40%, Germany - 61.51%

https://www.nationaldebtclocks.org/debtclock/norway

https://www.nationaldebtclocks.org/debtclock/unitedstates

https://www.nationaldebtclocks.org/debtclock/germany

- - -

Another important measurement is the Gini coefficient [1] which shows us if the wealth is distributed equally (G = 0% means everyone gets the same; G = 100% means one person has everything).

Norway: G = 27.5%

US: G = 48% (this means 1% owns half the wealth)

Germany: G = 28.9% after taxes (G = 49% before taxes). This shows how big the impact of taxes is for a fair distribution of wealth. Unfortunately, it's known that high-net-worth individuals have options to extract wealth without paying taxes. But I think they don't necessarily do themselves a favor because they simultaneously destroy the society they enjoy and depend on.

https://tradingeconomics.com/norway/gini-index-wb-data.html

https://www.statista.com/statistics/219643/gini-coefficient-...

http://www.oecd.org/social/income-distribution-database.htm

https://www.gut-leben-in-deutschland.de/static/LB/indicators...

[1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gini_coefficient

Re: Unlike most millennials, Norway's are rich

#23

Post by franciscop » Sat, Jul 14, 2018, 8:59 AM UTC

dumb2223 wrote: post #21

franciscop wrote: post #15

As a Spaniard who has discussed this in lenght with many other Europeans[1], it really seems like the US is the main country with the University debt issue. I also really believe that "score inflation" is a big issue mainly in the US. If everyone can finish University, then having a university title becomes pointless! [2] In Spain, Germany, France, Italy, etc if you get a degree in STEM it means you put a lot of effo…

As another Spaniard I agree with you. But degrees about tourism can get you a job here. As I am learning English, I would suggest: Use "at length",don't repeat finish so many times, finish (complete, get, achieve) a degree, become pointless (become less valuable, worthless), which (that) is what I now best. About grade inflation in the US: http://www.gradeinflation.com/ , https://blog.prepscholar.com/average-college-…

No problem, since I'm learning Japanese while living in Tokyo I've lost quite a bit of English. Repetition is your friend here as it's the only way to be able to speak with 90+% of the people and for them to understand. Thanks for the tips, improved it a bit :)

Re: Unlike most millennials, Norway's are rich

#24

Post by bernardino » Sat, Jul 14, 2018, 9:00 AM UTC

endymi0n wrote: post #17

jopsen wrote: post #11

Affordable education is probably a big part of how they do this. In northern Europe it is a clear political decision to invest in education. You'll politicians argue that we can't afford not to educate our teenagers, as it would make the welfare state unsustainable. Also, huge credit to Norway for how it handled it's olie money :)

In my not so humble opinion, it all comes down to a short- vs. farsighted culture and the resulting fundamental attitude towards kids. In the US, kids are seen at worst a nuisance and at best a personal luxury. In most of the northern/western EU, kids are seen as the future workers, decision makers and keepers of the whole economy 30 years into the future. All of the symptoms you are seeing, be it maternal / paternal…

> In the US, kids are seen at worst a nuisance and at best a personal luxury.

Please, if you may, explain why you think this is so.

Re: Unlike most millennials, Norway's are rich

#25

Post by tikkabhuna » Sat, Jul 14, 2018, 9:02 AM UTC

franciscop wrote: post #15

As a Spaniard who has discussed this in lenght with many other Europeans[1], it really seems like the US is the main country with the University debt issue. I also really believe that "score inflation" is a big issue mainly in the US. If everyone can finish University, then having a university title becomes pointless! [2] In Spain, Germany, France, Italy, etc if you get a degree in STEM it means you put a lot of effo…

> [1] oddly enough I have never discussed this with british people

Over recent decades tuition fees have been rising, but they've been covered by a special loan. Paying back this loan is taken out of your pay cheque (via PAYE) based on how much you earn. If you don't pay it back within a certain number of years it gets wiped.

Before the last major increase it was viewed by most of my peers (I graduated in 2013) as reasonable. Graduates could expect to pay it off.

Now graduates finish with £40,000-$50,000 and the interest rate is so high many won't ever pay it off.

Being able to support yourself during university might be a problem but there are bursaries and grants you can get.

Let me know if you want more details.

Re: Unlike most millennials, Norway's are rich

#26

Post by Latty » Sat, Jul 14, 2018, 9:02 AM UTC

franciscop wrote: post #15

As a Spaniard who has discussed this in lenght with many other Europeans[1], it really seems like the US is the main country with the University debt issue. I also really believe that "score inflation" is a big issue mainly in the US. If everyone can finish University, then having a university title becomes pointless! [2] In Spain, Germany, France, Italy, etc if you get a degree in STEM it means you put a lot of effo…

> If everyone can finish University, then having a university title becomes pointless!

Only if the value of a degree is having an edge over others, not if it's value is learning - primary school isn't pointless even though most people master it.

This feels like it links back to the same problem as everything else - as time goes on automation removes less skilled jobs, and more and more people will need to do more skilled jobs.

This means that at some point, university levels of education will probably become necessary for any employment - at that point (and arguably before), asking people to pay for education they need to be a functional member of society seems inherently broken.

Of course, the other option is just to accept that maybe in the future not everyone needs to work, or certainly not everyone needs to work a full time job. Unfortunately for America, the idea of anyone not working as a "freeloader" is so heavily ingrained into the public consciousness, it seems likely people will just be left to suffer (even if they are "freeloading" off the labour of machines).

Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if when we reach that point, people who can't do that level of work are defined as disabled in some way to "justify" it. Or, worse, arbitrary jobs that aren't needed, but are created just to employ them.

Re: Unlike most millennials, Norway's are rich

#27

Post by Ar-Curunir » Sat, Jul 14, 2018, 9:03 AM UTC

viach wrote: post #19

endymi0n wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In most cities in western / northern Europe, it's completely impossible by now to get a mortgage for a home remotely large enough for a family, even with two factory drone salaries and even if you pay all of your life.

Noticed how you added "large enough" restriction? Standards are changing, today it is not enough to buy just a house, it should be "large enough".

If you omit the second part of the phrase obviously the meaning changes. The commenter clearly said "large enough for a family".

Re: Unlike most millennials, Norway's are rich

#28

Post by DeepYogurt » Sat, Jul 14, 2018, 9:05 AM UTC

franciscop wrote: post #15

As a Spaniard who has discussed this in lenght with many other Europeans[1], it really seems like the US is the main country with the University debt issue. I also really believe that "score inflation" is a big issue mainly in the US. If everyone can finish University, then having a university title becomes pointless! [2] In Spain, Germany, France, Italy, etc if you get a degree in STEM it means you put a lot of effo…

> If everyone can finish University, then having a university title becomes pointless!

Certainly the competitive advantage has decreased over time. Having gone through the US university system myself I can confirm that there is... lets say "inflationary pressure", though I've also been at a european university and the same pressure existed there and for all the same reasons.

I agree that the university debt seems to be a uniquely american issue though.

Re: Unlike most millennials, Norway's are rich

#29

Post by smcl » Sat, Jul 14, 2018, 9:05 AM UTC

viach wrote: post #19

endymi0n wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In most cities in western / northern Europe, it's completely impossible by now to get a mortgage for a home remotely large enough for a family, even with two factory drone salaries and even if you pay all of your life.

Noticed how you added "large enough" restriction? Standards are changing, today it is not enough to buy just a house, it should be "large enough".

Everyone who has ever bought a house or flat has an expectation that it will be large enough for their needs - whether that is a single person, a couple or a family with two kids. This is not a new development.

Re: Unlike most millennials, Norway's are rich

#30

Post by dumb2223 » Sat, Jul 14, 2018, 9:07 AM UTC

franciscop wrote: post #23

dumb2223 wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As another Spaniard I agree with you. But degrees about tourism can get you a job here. As I am learning English, I would suggest: Use "at length",don't repeat finish so many times, finish (complete, get, achieve) a degree, become pointless (become less valuable, worthless), which (that) is what I now best. About grade inflation in the US: http://www.gradeinflation.com/ , https://blog.prepscholar.com/average-college-…

No problem, since I'm learning Japanese while living in Tokyo I've lost quite a bit of English. Repetition is your friend here as it's the only way to be able to speak with 90+% of the people and for them to understand. Thanks for the tips, improved it a bit :)

Thanks for being so open, I know I shouldn't give suggestions but watch out for karoshi culture, overwork and burnout, surely you should be able to cope with all that.