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George Hotz is on a hacker crusade against the ‘scam’ of self-driving cars

theverge.com

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Re: George Hotz is on a hacker crusade against the ‘scam’ of self-driving cars

#31

Post by commaai »

jaredklewis wrote: post #24
commaai wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are aware we are giving away open source software that will control your car, right? It's online today! And it's on par with the best systems money can buy, Tesla Autopilot and GM Super Cruise. https://github.com/commaai/openpilot No ability to deliver?

Not disputing your claim, but how did you determine the comma Ai system was on par with that of autopilot and super cruise? In general, are there any standardized tests for self driving cars, like car safety ratings but for the driving part? Basically, is there even a way to measure how good a driving system is?

Not really. It's mostly subjective, but a good metric is time between user action needed. We did 2 hours of press demos on highways without a single one. (usually it's about an hour)

In addition to us, we have a community of users on slack with thousands of miles of experience with each system. I think most would generally agree with the quality assessment. You'll also find a bunch of YouTube videos comparing them.

Re: George Hotz is on a hacker crusade against the ‘scam’ of self-driving cars

#32

Post by yters »

Brilliant! Pure AI is a dead end street. Turing machines cannot increase their minimal Kolmogorov sufficient statistic, so will always be unable to learn more information than is put into them originally. Humans are the only known information creators, and so only hybrid human/AI systems can work in the real world.

Re: George Hotz is on a hacker crusade against the ‘scam’ of self-driving cars

#33

Post by cozzyd »

mieseratte wrote: post #21
mirceal wrote: post #12

Interesting tidbit: Hotz actually means thief in a few languages. I actually don’t believe this guy. He may be brilliant, but there are quite a few brilliant people working on this problem - so no.

> Interesting tidbit: Hotz actually means thief in a few languages. You've piqued my inner language geek, but cursory Googling / Google Translate hasn't given me any luck. What language(s) would that be?

‎hoţ (pronounced hotz) is Romanian for thief. Not sure what the etymology is but it could be a Slavic loan word.

Edit: looked it up... Unknown etymology. I guess if you count Moldovan as a separate language then it means thief in at least two languages...

Re: George Hotz is on a hacker crusade against the ‘scam’ of self-driving cars

#34

Post by mmusson »

mieseratte wrote: post #21
mirceal wrote: post #12

Interesting tidbit: Hotz actually means thief in a few languages. I actually don’t believe this guy. He may be brilliant, but there are quite a few brilliant people working on this problem - so no.

> Interesting tidbit: Hotz actually means thief in a few languages. You've piqued my inner language geek, but cursory Googling / Google Translate hasn't given me any luck. What language(s) would that be?

I think the parent maybe have been attempting a joke. I also could not find any languages where Hotz means thief.

Interestingly it means cold in Basque and hotspot in Estonian.

Re: George Hotz is on a hacker crusade against the ‘scam’ of self-driving cars

#35

Post by agumonkey »

kgraves wrote: post #29
agumonkey wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tesla and Uber did seriously disappoint. It's even below that but still. I'm dubious about the capabilities of comma.ai system and calling it on par with Tesla after dissing it is a bit disingenuous. I still consider geohot too egotistical in his approach, and that it will not bear fruits. That big commercial companies are pulling bad tricks is one thing but that doesn't mean one lone motivated (and talented) wolf ca…

comma.ai poached an engineer from Tesla[0] I think they are very capable. Maybe their tech is not ready now, but who knows in 2-5 years where they will be. [0] https://www.theverge.com/2016/4/18/11454858/george-hotz-self...

I meant waymo because they have a less commercial approach compared to Tesla (which might taint this engineer view [or not])

I believe the only way out of the security pit is to double down on rigorous physics and not rapid ML

Re: George Hotz is on a hacker crusade against the ‘scam’ of self-driving cars

#36

Post by mcny »

zck wrote: post #5

> California’s DMV requires all companies testing self-driving cars to report how many times safety operators were forced to take control of its vehicles. You make what you measure. This encourages companies to have their safety operators take over less often: if you tell the operators to err on the side of safety and take over more often, your car will look less safe. I don't have a solution here, just pointing out…

Sorry if this is a stupid question but what does California do with these numbers? If Wayne has 10 engagements per mile driven with 10M miles driven and Tesla has 2 per mile with 500k miles driven and Uber has 1 per mile with 1M miles driven (all made up numbers), will there be some sort of penalty for below average scorers? Is it possible to categorically say who is the best? How does this work?

Re: George Hotz is on a hacker crusade against the ‘scam’ of self-driving cars

#37

Post by lern_too_spel »

mcny wrote: post #36
zck wrote: post #5

> California’s DMV requires all companies testing self-driving cars to report how many times safety operators were forced to take control of its vehicles. You make what you measure. This encourages companies to have their safety operators take over less often: if you tell the operators to err on the side of safety and take over more often, your car will look less safe. I don't have a solution here, just pointing out…

Sorry if this is a stupid question but what does California do with these numbers? If Wayne has 10 engagements per mile driven with 10M miles driven and Tesla has 2 per mile with 500k miles driven and Uber has 1 per mile with 1M miles driven (all made up numbers), will there be some sort of penalty for below average scorers? Is it possible to categorically say who is the best? How does this work?

It just makes the data public.

Re: George Hotz is on a hacker crusade against the ‘scam’ of self-driving cars

#38

Post by dchichkov »

agumonkey wrote: post #35
kgraves wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

comma.ai poached an engineer from Tesla[0] I think they are very capable. Maybe their tech is not ready now, but who knows in 2-5 years where they will be. [0] https://www.theverge.com/2016/4/18/11454858/george-hotz-self...

I meant waymo because they have a less commercial approach compared to Tesla (which might taint this engineer view [or not]) I believe the only way out of the security pit is to double down on rigorous physics and not rapid ML

One example that I like to give is a downed power line. This is something that happens often. Try solving it with rigorous physics.

Re: George Hotz is on a hacker crusade against the ‘scam’ of self-driving cars

#39

Post by ianlevesque »

Shank wrote: post #15

> If the driver looks down or away from the road for two seconds, a visual warning will appear on the Eon’s screen. After four seconds, the driver will hear an audible alert. And after six seconds, the system will disengage and begin to slow down. The biggest use of some kind of driver assist system is something that can keep me going straight and at a constant speed on a relatively open road while I twist open a bot…

Now that it’s open source you can remove that part.

Re: George Hotz is on a hacker crusade against the ‘scam’ of self-driving cars

#40

Post by 21 »

So now we'll have weekend "hackers" downloading this open source software, tweaking it, and hurling their cars down the road at high speed. Great.

The system also seems to have a single front facing camera. How will this detect for example a cyclist riding along the car and prevent the car from turning into him?

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