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WeWork Will No Longer Let Employees Expense Any Kind of Meat

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211–220 of 319 posts

Re: WeWork Will No Longer Let Employees Expense Any Kind of Meat

#211
post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“Intensely terrible” is one way to phrase “illegal under the ADA”... I would assume there will be accommodations made for folks with dietary restrictions that require them to eat meat, whether that’s through a simple waiver or a massive lawsuit.

No one's going to get sued for a reimbursement policy. They don't have an obligation to reimburse, and this falls so far outside of fair employment laws. HN is going nuts on this one.

Why do you say that? It’s certainly in line with the spirit of the ADA, and a cursory Google suggests that lawsuits related to dietary restrictions have been successful.

For what it’s worth, I’m a vegetarian and broadly in support of this policy, assuming it can be made compliant with the law.

Re: WeWork Will No Longer Let Employees Expense Any Kind of Meat

#212
post #92
post #14

I and a few of my past co-workers have been suspecting that the facilities team in a big tech company I used to work for had an evil genius plan to reduce costs: 1. Pick the most popular snack (e.g. nachos) 2. Replace it with less tasty alternative (e.g. kale chips) "for your health" 3. Consumption is a few times smaller 4. The company can claim they take better care of their workers and no one can accuse them of bei…

That could easily backfire though (healthier chips are usually much more expensive), specially because kale chips are delicious :)

I've tried 3 kinds of kale chips and disliked them all. Then again, I really dislike kale. And I like just about everything. I refer to kale as fart lettuce.

Re: WeWork Will No Longer Let Employees Expense Any Kind of Meat

#213
post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm curious about this mindset - it seems like you object to eating animals because they lack a choice. Do you have any problem with wild animals eating other wild animals (who presumably also have less of a choice)? I'm not trying to trick you or trap you, just genuinely curious.

I think that humans in the past have undoubtedly had to eat meat to survive, as do many wild animals, but now that most humans no longer need meat, there's no reason to inflict suffering on other animals.

The other thing that gets missed in debates about vegetarianism is that it's not necessarily a binary thing. Just because you don't eat meat in some of your meals doesn't make you a vegetarian. There's a continuum between eating meat with every meal and never eating it.

This is most frequently missed when people bring up historical justifications for eating meat and cite that we're evolved to eat it. But that ignores that eating meat was, for most of human history, a rarity. For the majority of human history, we didn't have the tools necessary to hunt animals with weapons. Instead, we chased them on protracted persistence hunts that would last many hours, if not days. This made meat meals a once-in-a-while thing, not an every meal thing.

Too often, extremists on the vegetarian side advocate total meat abstinence and meat eaters think nothing of eating meat with every meal. And advocating meat abstinence works just about as well as advocating sex abstinence. People just aren't ready to give it up entirely. But many of the benefits of vegetarianism, both for the eater and the planet/animals, can be had by simply reducing meat consumption and eating vegetarian more often. Eating meat occasionally also simplifies a number of the malnutrition risks that can be a concern for people who are completely vegan.

I see policies like the one in this story being beneficial not because they're going to turn people into vegetarians, but because they're going to realize that they can have satisfying meals that don't include meat and maybe they'll make that choice a bit more often. No one has to become a vegetarian for this policy to be good.

Re: WeWork Will No Longer Let Employees Expense Any Kind of Meat

#214
post #29
post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Like it or not, this is the side of history that will eventually win out. In 50-100 years from now, expect this kind of arrangement to be very common with American companies.

On what basis? The highly vegetarian countries are countries with a religious population, and Christianity has never been associated with vegetarianism.

There are plenty of (mostly older) Christian denominations that keep to vegetarian or vegan diets for large parts of the year. (This is why Ethiopian food tends to be so vegetable-heavy.)

Re: WeWork Will No Longer Let Employees Expense Any Kind of Meat

#215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I spent all my life an omnivore, until the last two years I became vegetarian; 6 of those months vegan. I’m inclined to agree with you if you meant that a ‘satiated’ vegan diet is more expensive, because often the (lower demand / higher price) raw ingredients to make meals from scratch are more niche and varied. However, once you throw (principally) dairy into the mix, including mass-market meat substitutes (such as…

I believe WeWork opened a great discussion and I personally applaud them for taking a stand. I also applauded Starbucks with straws like most others here. Also, I find that it's pretty easy to actually save money on vegan food. Maybe it takes a little planning, but it's not that difficult to walk away with more money eating vegan while feeling better.

>I also applauded Starbucks with straws like most others here.

Why do you hate disabled people?

Re: WeWork Will No Longer Let Employees Expense Any Kind of Meat

#216

It's funny to observe the criticism on a technical forum that should be in tune with the data. WeWork is setting a policy that is on the right side of history—for animals and the environment. I didn't see a lot of criticism on Starbucks straw decision. However, when the cost is a sacrifice closer to home, even when logic doesn't support the whining, so many try to find fault with a company decision that is net positi…

>I didn't see a lot of criticism on Starbucks straw decision.

There's been plenty

https://www.cnn.com/2018/07/11/opinions/starbucks-plastic-dr...

Re: WeWork Will No Longer Let Employees Expense Any Kind of Meat

#217
post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Only exactly as equal a choice for the individual doing the eating. It's less of a choice for the other beings involved.

I'm curious about this mindset - it seems like you object to eating animals because they lack a choice. Do you have any problem with wild animals eating other wild animals (who presumably also have less of a choice)? I'm not trying to trick you or trap you, just genuinely curious.

I’m genuinely curious: you ask if one has any problem. Do you mean to imply that you have zero problem with this?

When you watch a big cat torture and eat a prey animal, do you not have any sense at all that maybe the prey would prefer that not to happen? Or that, all else being equal, if the tiger could eat something that doesn’t seem to mind being eaten, that would be at least as good for everyone?

Like, obviously we can’t really do anything about that without killing all the cats, which we don’t really like any better, and even that would probably end up killing all the prey species too... so we’re kind of stuck with things this way.

But — again, genuinely asking — does the intractability of that problem really force you, personally, to assign zero moral weight to the experience of animals? Or do you sincerely just... not care?

Re: WeWork Will No Longer Let Employees Expense Any Kind of Meat

#218
post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>why do I feel especially aggravated on this topic? Might lead you somewhere. For the same reason a homosexual is annoyed by other people preaching to them that their actions are immoral and against nature.

I don't find this equivalence very compelling. Anti-gay arguments are based on either religious or extreme-naturalism grounds. This seems much different than arguments based around not harming sentient creatures, which I think many people intuitively identify with to some degree.

You argue philosophy (religion is a philosophy like any other in my book) but an existentialist would tell you that the morality of eating meat is purely an artificial construct: the animal simply exists and the actions of killing the animal and eating it are just actions.

Or, to put it more bluntly: you can't prove that eating animals (or gay sex, for that matter) are the "wrong" choices to make, no matter how much philosophy you've read or argued about. You can't even prove you exist or that this is reality. If you can't even prove that, you're a long way from proving that killing animals is a moral choice.

Re: WeWork Will No Longer Let Employees Expense Any Kind of Meat

#219
post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the other hand, a policy of "you can expense vegetarian meals, but only vegetarian meals" is forcing you to be vegetarian at a much higher and more obnoxious level than that.

Employees are not being forced to become vegetarians, they can still eat fish, dairy and eggs and expense their meals. They can even choose to go outside and eat meat, they have freedom of choice.

But dairy and eggs are part of a normal vegetarian diet. You worded it as if they are not.

Re: WeWork Will No Longer Let Employees Expense Any Kind of Meat

#220
post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where does it stop? When does compensation stop being the company's money and start being the employee's property to do with as they please?

It never started. The employee's wages can be used however they please.

Why are other forms of compensation (e.g. covering business expenses, or insurance) not equivalent to wages?

That is his point.

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