WeWork Will No Longer Let Employees Expense Any Kind of Meat • Hacker News Board

Re: WeWork Will No Longer Let Employees Expense Any Kind of Meat

#141

Post by rfrey » Fri, Jul 13, 2018, 10:02 PM UTC

nodesocket wrote: post #52

> that staff will not be able to expense any meals that include poultry, pork or red meat That is absurd. Imagine the opposite (a company only allowed expensing meat meals) and the amount of blowback, PR nightmare, and internet outrage. The hypocrisy continues.

I have no particular stance on WeWork's policy, but this argument seems pretty strained. You seem to be saying that if implementing the opposite of policy A would be unacceptable, then implementing policy A is hypocrisy.

That doesn't make sense to me. At the extreme end, take my moral stance against killing other people. "Imagine the opposite - having a moral stance FOR killing people - there would be outrage! Hypocrisy."

Or with a less extreme example, say as a company I mandate the use of electric cars on business trips (assuming rental companies had them available). Many people would think the opposite policy - say, mandating vehicles getting 12mpg or less - would be an outrage. Would that make the electric-car-preferred policy hypocritical?

It seems like our entire discourse now - especially our political discourse - is one big search for the big Hypocrisy Gotcha moment.

Re: WeWork Will No Longer Let Employees Expense Any Kind of Meat

#142

Post by whack » Fri, Jul 13, 2018, 10:03 PM UTC

bunderbunder wrote: post #110

Waterluvian wrote: post #36

Being a vegetarian is exactly as equal a choice of freedom as being an omnivore or carnivore. This feels wrong to push this lifestyle on people. Of course one can always just not do business with We Work.

Let's not be hyperbolic here. Serving food that doesn't happen to contain meat isn't forcing you to be vegetarian any more than serving only soft drinks at an event would be forcing you to be a teetotaler.

That's a pretty great analogy. Lots of businesses have a no-alcohol policy. No one even bats an eye when it's mentioned. I hardly see anyone complaining about such companies pushing a lifestyle agenda.

Re: WeWork Will No Longer Let Employees Expense Any Kind of Meat

#143

Post by PKop » Fri, Jul 13, 2018, 10:03 PM UTC

nkrisc wrote: post #78

nodesocket wrote: post #52

> that staff will not be able to expense any meals that include poultry, pork or red meat That is absurd. Imagine the opposite (a company only allowed expensing meat meals) and the amount of blowback, PR nightmare, and internet outrage. The hypocrisy continues.

What exactly is the hypocrisy? Eating only meat is a very restricted and strange diet while excluding only meat can be a perfectly healthy diet. You're trying to make these equal opposites but they're not. Sort of like how not serving alcohol is acceptable but serving only alcohol (not even water) would be outrageous.

It's not at all strange for many people, and exactly the opposite view is held by them.. that eating all vegetarian is unhealthy, and all or mostly meat is the healthiest.

I mean, we can provide some supporting evidence to support our claims, but certainly your statement is not uncontroversial..

Re: WeWork Will No Longer Let Employees Expense Any Kind of Meat

#144

Post by glass_of_water » Fri, Jul 13, 2018, 10:04 PM UTC

lolsal wrote: post #114

inertiatic wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Only exactly as equal a choice for the individual doing the eating. It's less of a choice for the other beings involved.

I'm curious about this mindset - it seems like you object to eating animals because they lack a choice. Do you have any problem with wild animals eating other wild animals (who presumably also have less of a choice)? I'm not trying to trick you or trap you, just genuinely curious.

I think that humans in the past have undoubtedly had to eat meat to survive, as do many wild animals, but now that most humans no longer need meat, there's no reason to inflict suffering on other animals.

Re: WeWork Will No Longer Let Employees Expense Any Kind of Meat

#145

Post by curo » Fri, Jul 13, 2018, 10:04 PM UTC

temp54679680544 wrote: post #127

curo wrote: post #106

A lot of comments seem to be missing the facts: - WeWork isn't forcing employees to be vegetarian (it's not like a hiring requirement) - most companies have restrictions and rules surrounding their expensing - WeWork has decided they won't reimburse meat (employees can still buy meat) Should we force WeWork leadership, despite their rights to hold moral positions, to pay for something they don't want to pay for?

Yes, they should be forced to pay for the things normally required of an employer. Including reasonable meals during business travel. The individual employee can choose on their own to be vegan or vegetarian, or to eat meat. Why should the individual rights of the employee be surpassed by the rights of the powerful employer?

If you mean "rights" in a legal context, nowhere does an employee have a right to be reimbursed. The closest governing law here is fair employment, and this isn't anywhere close to that.

edit: so long as work-related expenses doesn't sum out to a minimum wage violation

Re: WeWork Will No Longer Let Employees Expense Any Kind of Meat

#146

Post by danmg » Fri, Jul 13, 2018, 10:05 PM UTC

This is completely unenforceable.

Just claim that you ordered the dish without meat.

Re: WeWork Will No Longer Let Employees Expense Any Kind of Meat

#147

Post by [deleted] » Fri, Jul 13, 2018, 10:05 PM UTC

thaumasiotes wrote: post #134

bunderbunder wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's not be hyperbolic here. Serving food that doesn't happen to contain meat isn't forcing you to be vegetarian any more than serving only soft drinks at an event would be forcing you to be a teetotaler.

On the other hand, a policy of "you can expense vegetarian meals, but only vegetarian meals" is forcing you to be vegetarian at a much higher and more obnoxious level than that.

[deleted]

Re: WeWork Will No Longer Let Employees Expense Any Kind of Meat

#148

Post by nAwYz » Fri, Jul 13, 2018, 10:05 PM UTC

watwut wrote: post #79

user5994461 wrote: post #66

It's obvious they are trying to save money, with the weirdest excuse they could find. Meat is the most expensive part of any meal.

Eating vegetarian is more expensive if you want to feel full and satiated in the end.

Could you point me to research regarding this? It sounds pretty anecdotal

Re: WeWork Will No Longer Let Employees Expense Any Kind of Meat

#149

Post by PKop » Fri, Jul 13, 2018, 10:05 PM UTC

CuriouslyC wrote: post #139

PKop wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You certainly don't feel this way in principle, just in degree. Do you swat at mosquitos or flies when they bite you? Explain to me how you think different races compare to each other like a human compares to a cow? We are superior to the cow in so many ways... is that your opinion of races? I think it is immoral to not hold humans in higher regard than animals, and do what is necessary to prioritize the well being o…

You are superior to a cow in so many ways, according to you, based on your criteria. The nazis thought they were superior to jews in so many ways, according to them, based on their criteria. One is just as objectively true as the other.

Let's just leave it to "power". We are immensely more powerful than the cow, seeing as they aren't having any debates about whether they should eat us or not, and can't do anything to stop whether we want to eat them.. it is simply our choice to do so or not.

I think that's pretty objective.

Re: WeWork Will No Longer Let Employees Expense Any Kind of Meat

#150

Post by charmides » Fri, Jul 13, 2018, 10:06 PM UTC

teaneedz wrote: post #64

It's funny to observe the criticism on a technical forum that should be in tune with the data. WeWork is setting a policy that is on the right side of history—for animals and the environment. I didn't see a lot of criticism on Starbucks straw decision. However, when the cost is a sacrifice closer to home, even when logic doesn't support the whining, so many try to find fault with a company decision that is net positi…

It's the do-gooder derogation effect: http://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/1948550611415695

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/in-love-and-war/2017...

"But what was especially interesting was that those who viewed vegetarians more negatively were also more likely to expect that vegetarians would view them negatively, suggesting that a fear of moral reproach might underlie negative views of vegetarians. Supporting this idea, when the threat of moral reproach was experimentally manipulated, the researchers found that it increased negative evaluations of vegetarians."