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Grand Jury Indicts Russian Officers for Hacking Related to the 2016 Election
121–130 of 172 posts
Re: Grand Jury Indicts Russian Officers for Hacking Related to the 2016 Election
#122Earlier quoted context omitted.
> It's not; the issue is that a US Presidential campaign actively collaborated in an influence operation by a hostile foreign power directed against the US That's a bold claim given that this indictment is exclusively of Russian agents and the special counsel has explicitly stated that said President is not a target of the probe [0]. When you say "active collaboration" what does that actually mean? And could you pres…
> That's a bold claim given that this indictment is exclusively of Russian agents This is not the only indictment by the special counsel office, and the statement of the offense in one of the guilty pleas in a prior indictment is directly about active collusion efforts. And I'm discussing what is at issue in the scandal, not merely what is covered by indictments that have already been issued. > the special counsel ha…
Not sure why this is being downvoted. It is abundantly clear that the special counsel is being extremely conservative with their indictments and claims so as to not create the opportunity for opponents to dispute the claims.
The issue of target vs subject is a technical one by the special counsel and is intentionally twisted by the conservative media. It's like in any other legal trial: a verdict of "not guilty" is not an affirmation that the defendant is innocent, but rather that the prosecution couldn't prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that the defendant was guilty.
Whereas most of SV embraces "move fast and break things", we should be thankful that the special counsel is not.
Re: Grand Jury Indicts Russian Officers for Hacking Related to the 2016 Election
#123Earlier quoted context omitted.
> That's a bold claim given that this indictment is exclusively of Russian agents This is not the only indictment by the special counsel office, and the statement of the offense in one of the guilty pleas in a prior indictment is directly about active collusion efforts. And I'm discussing what is at issue in the scandal, not merely what is covered by indictments that have already been issued. > the special counsel ha…
Not sure why this is being downvoted. It is abundantly clear that the special counsel is being extremely conservative with their indictments and claims so as to not create the opportunity for opponents to dispute the claims. The issue of target vs subject is a technical one by the special counsel and is intentionally twisted by the conservative media. It's like in any other legal trial: a verdict of "not guilty" is n…
On the other hand these indictments will never go to trial, and the defendants will not be convicted and/or punished, so it’s a little too conservative for now.
Re: Grand Jury Indicts Russian Officers for Hacking Related to the 2016 Election
#124Earlier quoted context omitted.
> What I could not glean from the indictment is how they could possibly have identified these 12 people individually. The government must have some other sigint or humint for that? Will this ever make it to trial so that evidence can be revealed? These indictments are the result of a massive counterintelligence operation spanning many agencies from several nations. In this case specifically, the AIVD (Dutch intel) ha…
I'm curious why it should stay secret when it's literally world-wide public knowledge they have it. What would be at risk by sharing what is absolutely known to exist?
Knowing the details is very different from having access to the physical evidence that led to that knowledge. The latter can very often be used to trace intelligence operatives and expose the methods they use - either of which could have life or death consequences for the operatives themselves, the informants and dissidents they work with, and Americans working in the area in general.
For example, when it was exposed that the CIA was using a vaccination program in Pakistan to test for the DNA of known terrorists, their associates, and families, the backlash led to the death of many aid works and a massive drop in vaccinations in the country.
Re: Grand Jury Indicts Russian Officers for Hacking Related to the 2016 Election
#125Earlier quoted context omitted.
> It's not; the issue is that a US Presidential campaign actively collaborated in an influence operation by a hostile foreign power directed against the US That's a bold claim given that this indictment is exclusively of Russian agents and the special counsel has explicitly stated that said President is not a target of the probe [0]. When you say "active collaboration" what does that actually mean? And could you pres…
You need to realize that just because he isn't a 'target' at this time, it does not mean he cannot become a target in the future. Right now he is considered a subject of the investigation and his behavior/actions are under scrutiny of the Mueller investigation. If Trump is elevated to target of the investigation, then that means the Mueller investigation has significant evidence that a crime was committed. Considerin…
Let's go through the people close to Trump who have been indicted or who have plead guilty.
Paul Manafort: Indicted for a number of financial crimes unrelated to the 2016 election. https://www.justice.gov/file/1007271/download and https://www.justice.gov/file/1038391/download
Richard Gates: As above.
George Papadopoulos: Plead guilty to lying to the FBI without an underlying crime. https://www.justice.gov/file/1007346/download
Michael Flynn: Plead guilty to lying to the FBI without an underlying crime. https://www.justice.gov/file/1015126/download
So far there is no indictment or guilty plea among Trump's associates related to the 2016 election.
Re: Grand Jury Indicts Russian Officers for Hacking Related to the 2016 Election
#126From the indictment with my comments in [] 22. On or about July 27 2016 the Conspirators attempted after hours to spearphish for the first time email accounts at a domain hosted by a 3rd party provider and used by Clinton's personal office. At or around the same time, they also targeted seventy-six email addresses at the domain for the Clinton Campaign. [July 27 2016 is the date on which Trump said on national TV "Ru…
> [July 27 2016 is the date on which Trump said on national TV "Russia if you're listening..." and invited Russia to commit a crime to hack and find Clinton's 'missing' emails.] Trump's words were "Russia, if you’re listening, I hope you’re able to find the 30,000 emails that are missing"[1]. In my view, interpreting that as a call to commit a crime is a stretch. [1] https://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/28/us/politics/don…
The FBI only stated that they believed Crowdstrike but they themselves never obtained or examined the server despite multiple attempts.
Re: Grand Jury Indicts Russian Officers for Hacking Related to the 2016 Election
#127Earlier quoted context omitted.
You need to realize that just because he isn't a 'target' at this time, it does not mean he cannot become a target in the future. Right now he is considered a subject of the investigation and his behavior/actions are under scrutiny of the Mueller investigation. If Trump is elevated to target of the investigation, then that means the Mueller investigation has significant evidence that a crime was committed. Considerin…
Let's go through the people close to Trump who have been indicted or who have plead guilty. Paul Manafort: Indicted for a number of financial crimes unrelated to the 2016 election. https://www.justice.gov/file/1007271/download and https://www.justice.gov/file/1038391/download Richard Gates: As above. George Papadopoulos: Plead guilty to lying to the FBI without an underlying crime. https://www.justice.gov/file/100734…
> George Papadopoulos: Plead guilty to lying to the FBI without an underlying crime.
[...]
> So far there is no indictment or guilty plea among Trump's associates related to the 2016 election.
Wrong. What Papadopoulos plead guilty lying to the FBI about was specifically collaborating with Russians known to and believed by him to be connected with the Russian government while he was a foreign policy adviser to the campaign, on matters related to the campaign. See the “Statement of Offense” filed with his plea:
Re: Grand Jury Indicts Russian Officers for Hacking Related to the 2016 Election
#128Earlier quoted context omitted.
You'd have to pretty majorly change the US Constitution before that is even remotely legal.
Not really. Criminal conspiracy is already a crime.
Alone, the comment may have been solicitation, but couldn't be conspiracy.
But solicitation is also a crime.
Re: Grand Jury Indicts Russian Officers for Hacking Related to the 2016 Election
#129Earlier quoted context omitted.
Hypothetically, if a Russian agent became President of the USA, what would you expect him to do? Try to withdraw from as many international treaties as possible? Insult foreign heads of state and sabotage America's relationship with their allies? Refuse to enact sanctions against Russia? I don't think Trump is a Russian agent, but I wouldn't call the idea crazy
> Hypothetically, if a Russian agent became President of the USA, what would you expect him to do? If a Russian agent became President of the USA, I would expect him to disarm american citizens and to reduce the power of the U.S. military. e: if you're downvoting please explain why.
Why would disarming citizens make a difference?
Re: Grand Jury Indicts Russian Officers for Hacking Related to the 2016 Election
#130Earlier quoted context omitted.
Let's go through the people close to Trump who have been indicted or who have plead guilty. Paul Manafort: Indicted for a number of financial crimes unrelated to the 2016 election. https://www.justice.gov/file/1007271/download and https://www.justice.gov/file/1038391/download Richard Gates: As above. George Papadopoulos: Plead guilty to lying to the FBI without an underlying crime. https://www.justice.gov/file/100734…
> George Papadopoulos: Plead guilty to lying to the FBI without an underlying crime. [...] > So far there is no indictment or guilty plea among Trump's associates related to the 2016 election. Wrong. What Papadopoulos plead guilty lying to the FBI about was specifically collaborating with Russians known to and believed by him to be connected with the Russian government while he was a foreign policy adviser to the cam…
I have seen his statement of offense document. In fact I linked to it in my own post. The only crime listed in it is "18 U.S.C. §1001 (False Statements)". It's true that the contents of his lies relate to the collusion investigation, but still, there is no underlying crime charged or pleaded guilty to that relates to the 2016 election.