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“I'm basically giving myself a permanent vacation from being BDFL”

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691–700 of 764 posts

Re: “I'm basically giving myself a permanent vacation from being BDFL”

#691
post #636

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry, but this is the classic legalistic gambit of the troll. It's not hard to figure out the intended use of the site. If you don't want to use it that way, please don't post here and please don't make new accounts to get around the restrictions.

Dang, you are not listening to user problems. I was moderator for more than 10 years on linux.org.ua and nobody told me that I was bad moderator. I also regular user on other forums/sites, so I have view on the problem from both sides. HN is badly moderated. However, most problems with moderation/flames/etc., can be fixed using technology or by writing better rules. If you are interesting in fixing of HN problems, co…

Happy to listen to user opinions and do so every day, but when someone has a history of not following the site rules, as you do, their complaints become less compelling. This can be fixed by reading https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and taking the spirit of this site to heart, and using at as intended from now on.

Re: “I'm basically giving myself a permanent vacation from being BDFL”

#692
post #403

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> Everytime we post an opinion against the consensus Downvoting was, long ago, supposed to be used to indicate trolling, incivility, not substantive, etc. Sometime recently, dang and sctb have ruled that downvoting for disagreement is now perfectly acceptable. In any event, I agree it's become a terrible method of hivemind enforcement. Have an upvote.

> Sometime recently, dang and sctb have ruled that downvoting for disagreement is now perfectly acceptable. You are wrong about that: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=117171

More here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16131314

Re: “I'm basically giving myself a permanent vacation from being BDFL”

#693
post #667

Earlier quoted context omitted.

pg asserted that downvoting is fine to be used for disagreement in Feb 2008, when HN was less than a year old: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=117171

I don't care about pg tho

The point is simply that he set the pattern for this site.

Re: “I'm basically giving myself a permanent vacation from being BDFL”

#694
post #671
post #668

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This is laughable. What would you consider a "personal" insult?

Something personal to an individual, insulting their looks, background, family, etc. If you call me a dickhead it's not a personal insult, call me fat it's getting there and when it's that [redacted] event when I was drunk a few weeks ago it's personal. Anyone that find that Linus spray as "brutally personal" needs a cup of cement.

If you showed me the sentence "If you call me a dickhead it's not a personal insult" removed from all context I would immediately know that it could only have been posted by a brain genius at Hacker News.

Re: “I'm basically giving myself a permanent vacation from being BDFL”

#695
post #663
post #420

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>Fun fact, I believe the very first google scraper was written in it. Fun "fact": I need to check my facts, but it could be that the very first Google was written it it, too :) Checked: https://www.google.co.in/search?q=what+language+was+google+s... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_Search https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Google

That’s what he said :-) (first google scraper = scraper used in original google implementation)

Okay, I thought he meant a product that scraped Google sites.

Re: “I'm basically giving myself a permanent vacation from being BDFL”

#696
post #641
post #485

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>It's amazing he managed to not explode at somebody. Like a certain other BDFL occasionally does?

Maybe this is the reason that the certain other BDFL is still in service? Maybe it's part of psycho-hygiene in order to be able to continue? I sincerely don't know - your question just triggered my experience when working in psychiatry and seeing how the staff was venting, talking and joking about patients - once the doors were closed. I was very shocked, was quite young, around 20 when serving - but one of the docto…

> one of the doctors, when she saw my shock, took me apart and explained that this behaviour, so shocking it might be when seeing it for the first time, is part of psycho-hygiene that allows the people to be able to continue to work

Did you consider that her taking you apart and explaining it away with that excuse is just as much part of her "psycho-hygiene" that allows her to joke about the suffering and mental well-being of the human beings explicitly left in her care, without feeling bad about it?

I mean, what the hell? I trust my therapists not to laugh about my issues behind my back just like I trust the chef cooks at a restaurant not to spit on my food. Even if in most cases I won't be able to tell, it's a matter of trust and professionalism. I have to trust them on this. I HAVE to be able to honestly believe that a therapist or psychiatrist with a professional attitude and ethics will NOT joke about the most embarrassing issues I trust them with, the moment that I turn my back. Otherwise you can't do therapy with them.

Therefore whatever the hell this doctor thinks they're doing, is very unprofessional.

No matter the excuses they told you. I mean if you need this sort of disrespectful "psycho hygiene" for your mental well-being, first consider if you're even cut out for the job. Maybe look for other parts of the mental health sector, with patients whose problems you find less hilariously funny. Finally, if you really found your calling in one of the rather serious, dark corners of mental health care, the ones that are truly as taxing that merely working there requires counselling lest you burn out, then do exactly that. Vent at a counsellor. You can even joke at them because they're bound to a professional secrecy. Your colleagues aren't. They may be to your patients but not to you and that's the point. It needs to be separate.

And also VERY importantly, that counsellor will tell you when you actually cross the line and venting turns bad. In a social group, between colleagues, and a psychiatrist should know this, there is no such check. There's group pressure. Boundaries are tested. Someone says "maybe that's in bad taste", but next week two other people do it, and the someone doesn't want to keep nagging at colleagues, so the behaviour gets normalised. Boundaries have moved. Now you have a proper toxic environment. And then at some point, a young new 20-something staff-member joins, is shocked about the lack of professionalism. Now they have to be taken apart and explained why this behaviour is considered okay and is normalised. But says who?? There is no oversight, no checks, it's just social pressure and venting between colleagues. Who's there to say "this is enough and this is too much" and how are they qualified to make an objective call about it?

Just out of curiosity, what country's mental health care were you talking about? The quality of that varies widely enough that sure there's enough places in the world where if your story is the worst that is going on, it's probably good and at least it's not neglect or abuse. It's a matter of how high you put the bar. Regardless, a psychiatric doctor shouldn't actively rationalise this behaviour to newcomers.

Quickly getting back to the BDFL topic: There are many ways to handle pressure etc, and the ones that do not require you to occasionally "explode at someone", are in fact healthier and better for one's mental well-being.

Re: “I'm basically giving myself a permanent vacation from being BDFL”

#697
post #679

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your example is already doable without lambdas: def f(x): return x * x

To clarify: the point I was trying to make was that the explicit 'end' in Lua allows for closures that are more nice (subjective) than Python lambdas. Something both JS and Lua got right, but with which Python ended up with a much more limited syntax.

The lambda syntax is not what makes it less nice - it's the fact that they are limited to a single expression. Being indentation-based has nothing to do with that restriction: Nim manages to use indents and to have multiline lambdas at the same time.

Re: “I'm basically giving myself a permanent vacation from being BDFL”

#698
post #662
post #654

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$ git shortlog -s --author Sievers --before 2012-07-06 339 Kay Sievers $ git shortlog -s --author Sievers --after 2012-07-06 12 Kay Sievers

That specific dev was completely banned from kernel development four years ago (two years later): https://lkml.org/lkml/2014/4/2/420 . I don't know the persons involved and how much they contributed, but I'm wary of the implied cause.

I think it's related to this [1]. The tone of the conversation is unbelievable, is it normal to have this kind of flame wars on kernel?

[1] https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=76935

Re: “I'm basically giving myself a permanent vacation from being BDFL”

#699

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I can never get into Python and end up with as much passion as you. For me, its a very powerful and useful language - no doubt about it. But the aesthetics of a whitespace language just don't jive with my 30+ years of experience writing code. No matter how many times I try over the past few decades, I just can't get passionate about writing Python code. I know its power, and I totally grok its value to our industry -…

> but for me, Lua is just far more elegant, It's curious... Lua is my favorite language due to its elegance, but I would love it even more if it used significant indentation (using tabs, of course) instead of "end" blocks.

You can try moonscript. It compiles to Lua and uses significant indentation.

Re: “I'm basically giving myself a permanent vacation from being BDFL”

#700

Earlier quoted context omitted.

have you ever tried f#? if you think python is what lisp could be (a little confused by that...see racket...but...), then i am curious what you think about something like f#. it’s like python in a way, in that it has oop and uses indentation and not brackets, but it is so much more. and it’s more regular in its semantics. everything returns a value.

"The future we were promised" sounds like he's talking more about a combination of ergonomics and productivity that were promised by Lisp but it never got there because the community just didn't expand to the same size. Python is so widely used that the combination of adoption and design decisions is in the sweet spot we were "promised" by Lisp advocates. F# could also play that role since it can access the rest of t…

You're exactly right about what I've meant. It's not only about the language. In fact, I'd argue it has the least weight of all of the variables. There are various nice languages (to use) which just aren't there regarding publicly available knowledge, libraries, tools, manpower, etc. (lisp', scheme, d1, Ada even...). Python, while not perfect, sits quite comfortably where you could say it has it all.
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