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“I'm basically giving myself a permanent vacation from being BDFL”

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Re: “I'm basically giving myself a permanent vacation from being BDFL”

#581

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think what you're saying is true in the case of someone just throwing up some code they wrote online without any plan of supporting or developing it further. But once you call it an open-source project, and you have docs and a roadmap and an issues page and stuff, you're making an implicit contract with people who use it that it will do a reasonable job of solving the problem it claims to solve. The user is choosin…

Most open-source licenses explicitly say that the software is provided as-is, and there is no warranty, express or implied, nor any obligation to continue to provide support or for it even to work. https://www.apache.org/licenses/LICENSE-2.0 https://opensource.org/licenses/MIT https://opensource.org/licenses/BSD-3-Clause https://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-3.0.en.html The user is indeed choosing to use it over other alt…

> Most open-source licenses explicitly say that the software is provided as-is, and there is no warranty, express or implied, nor any obligation to continue to provide support or for it even to work.

Certainly, but notwithstanding those disclaimers, if the project's README or homepage describes it as intended and fit for a particular purpose, the user invests some time into learning to use the code in question based on the description, and it turns out that the description was... shall we say, overly optimistic, isn't the user entitled to be pissed off at the maintainer?

There may not be any legal liability, but the maintainer can incur social obligations by fostering expectations.

As an analogy, what do you think will happen if you tell someone you will help them move their stuff to a new apartment and that you'll bring a dolly, but you bail on them, or even just don't show up[0]? They chose to rely on you to provide the dolly rather than find some other alternative, after all.

So of course social obligations aren't something you can be sued over, but they are indeed real, and ignoring or violating them does have a cost: People get pissed off at you, which they may choose to express uncouthly in your general direction or vicinity, and your reputation suffers.

It is worth noting that this is far from a blank check for them to hurl invective at you. Their reputation may suffer as well, depending on just how uncouth they are.

Such is life.

[0] I am NOT saying that GvR has done the equivalent. In point of fact, he has left no outstanding commitments behind, and has fostered the growth of a robust group of core committers that are well up to the task of continuing to steer the project in his stead, though perhaps without his particular aesthetic sense.

Re: “I'm basically giving myself a permanent vacation from being BDFL”

#582
post #252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A programming language and the tools you use with it are tightly integrated: you're never using a language, you're always using a language via a tool. And if all C compilers you might use have warnings enabled for this buggy expression, then there's no problem.

The most important "program" that reads your source code is probably in your brain. You probably have some "tooling" in their that is on the watch for "if (x = y)" and other patterns, but I'm sure you'd prefer to not have to run it. As another counterexample let me give you "language tooling". For example, write a tool that generates a FFI from $LANGUAGE to C. Is it really so unimportant that $LANGUAGE is clean and s…

> "The most important "program" that reads your source code is probably in your brain."

Not if you have a good Integrated Development Environment (or IDE for short)! That's an even better "program" than your brain, because it shows syntax errors and other warnings right next to your code. It will literally put little red squiggly lines right under `if (x = 1)` and show the file as red in your file explorer side-bar, and when you hover over this line it will give you a tool tip saying "this assigns a new value, it's probably not what you meant, I can either turn it into x == 1 or ((x = 1)), which one do you want?" That is the power of IDEs and they are amazing. We should consider them an integral part of writing code and not fight them or be afraid of them!

Re: “I'm basically giving myself a permanent vacation from being BDFL”

#583

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IANAL but here are a few things to consider. Every person has a duty of care to minimize the possibility of harm to others. In some professions the standard is higher and may be codified into statute and/or bylaws of their professional association e.g. medical and legal professions. What this means is that, for example, in certain jurisdictions a doctor is bound by his Hippocratic oath and has to render medical assis…

Most (all?) open source licenses have a clause disclaiming any implied warranty or fitness for a purpose. The example you cite of a doctor being required to provide emergency medical care I don’t think is quite accurate. In fact, doctors are often not covered by “Good Samaritan” laws and can be held liable if they do stop to help someone and something goes wrong. A layperson would not have that type of legal exposure…

That’s the point I was making: it’s not so cut-and-dry as the parent assumed. Depending on the jurisdiction, some actions (or inaction, as the case may be) have consequences. And not all disclaimers are lawful, especially with regards to disclaimers of warranty.

Re: “I'm basically giving myself a permanent vacation from being BDFL”

#584

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IANAL but here are a few things to consider. Every person has a duty of care to minimize the possibility of harm to others. In some professions the standard is higher and may be codified into statute and/or bylaws of their professional association e.g. medical and legal professions. What this means is that, for example, in certain jurisdictions a doctor is bound by his Hippocratic oath and has to render medical assis…

Most (all?) open source licenses have a clause disclaiming any implied warranty or fitness for a purpose. The example you cite of a doctor being required to provide emergency medical care I don’t think is quite accurate. In fact, doctors are often not covered by “Good Samaritan” laws and can be held liable if they do stop to help someone and something goes wrong. A layperson would not have that type of legal exposure…

It’s not accurate at all.

In the U.S., a doctor has no affirmative duty to provide medical assistance to injured persons if they have not established a special relationship with the individual.

Re: “I'm basically giving myself a permanent vacation from being BDFL”

#585

I don't know if it's just me, but if you read the forums and bug reports related to open source projects, it feels like programmers today are a really entitled lot. The tone that people take when filing bug reports for what is basically free software is reprehensible. People are doing work for FREE to benefit you, and you take a tone with them like you are a prince and they are your royal goblet holders? Who taught t…

https://github.com/evantahler/Dont-be-a-Jerk : The open source license for reasonable free software

I like it but I think its terms are contradictory.

- "You don't have to do X but if you don't do X you're being a jerk."

- "Don't be a jerk."

If I don't do X, have I violated the license terms or not?

Re: “I'm basically giving myself a permanent vacation from being BDFL”

#586

For anyone else wondering what BDFL means: Benevolent Dictator For Life (BDFL) is a title given to a small number of open-source software development leaders, typically project founders who retain the final say in disputes or arguments within the community. The phrase originated in 1995 with reference to Guido van Rossum, creator of the Python programming language.[1][2] Shortly after van Rossum joined the Corporatio…

Especially since Linus is the BDFL most recognized as such.

Not the benevolent part

(regarding his style of communication)

Re: “I'm basically giving myself a permanent vacation from being BDFL”

#587

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think what you're saying is true in the case of someone just throwing up some code they wrote online without any plan of supporting or developing it further. But once you call it an open-source project, and you have docs and a roadmap and an issues page and stuff, you're making an implicit contract with people who use it that it will do a reasonable job of solving the problem it claims to solve. The user is choosin…

I think theres absolutely zero implicit contract that implies that open source software maintainers owe ANYone ANYthing at ANYtime. That's the reason it's open source because everyone can fix it, all an open source maintainer owes you is a P.R. review. Therefore if an open source project maintainer is giving you their time and patience then you better be extra polite and grateful to them. If Ben and Jerrys left a bun…

> all an open source maintainer owes you is a P.R. review.

What? Given what you said in your first sentence, this seems a bit contradictory. When I post some code online, nothing forces me to review PRs other than an implicit social contract.

The likelihood of a rational person ignoring PRs/issues seems pretty low, since one typically wants improve their software. Nonetheless, it definitely happens for one reason or another and it's not something worth complaining about unless you're given some sort of a priori quality assurance.

I'm sure there are thousands of projects on Github which have a 0% response rate for PRs/issues. This isn't bad -- it just is. It's entirely someone's right to post a project and forget about it, regardless of how popular it got later on. Radio-silent projects will almost never get popular, since there's an implicit meta contract around support, feedback, etc.

Re: “I'm basically giving myself a permanent vacation from being BDFL”

#588
post #559

Earlier quoted context omitted.

32,000 pages simultaneously - in 1995? Async has only recently been added to Python, no?

Using select: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Select_(Unix)

is that a fact or are you guessing?

Re: “I'm basically giving myself a permanent vacation from being BDFL”

#589
post #559

Earlier quoted context omitted.

32,000 pages simultaneously - in 1995? Async has only recently been added to Python, no?

Using select: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Select_(Unix)

select doesnt scale well.

Re: “I'm basically giving myself a permanent vacation from being BDFL”

#590

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Especially since Linus is the BDFL most recognized as such.

Not the benevolent part (regarding his style of communication)

Bu the communication is not what the benelovent dictator means. It refers to something else.
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