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Thailand cave rescue: all 12 boys and coach successfully rescued

theguardian.com

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Re: Thailand cave rescue: all 12 boys and coach successfully rescued

#551

Post by celticninja »

pbhjpbhj wrote: post #521
celticninja wrote: post #520

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What doesn't add up? Why is the death of the diver strange?

It's strange to me. I've only dived at a novice level and never in a cave: An expert diver who was delivering spare oxygen (or was it air), with a buddy, in a system in which a static line had been placed, and in which presumably a dive leader was managing operations and wouldn't allow a diver to return without a suitable amount of air .. in that situation they simply ran out of air? It seems so unlikely. I just assu…

Cave diving is a much more difficult version of diving. Many of the Thai seal team divers are open water divers. This is why there was a large contingent of foreign divers involved. Those with the requisite skills levels are widely dispersed. It's entirely likely that Saman Gunan could have done a hundred more open water dives and survived then all, but due to the difficult conditions in this situation it is possible he got disoriented and/or panicked and ran out of air. I think because the boys survived many people perhaps underestimate the difficulty of the situation now that it is resolved.

Re: Thailand cave rescue: all 12 boys and coach successfully rescued

#552

Post by kadenshep »

dang wrote: post #550
kadenshep wrote: post #536

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please elaborate? I presented an actual perspective. You have gone around these threads and insulted and demeaned people with a different opinion than the majority and then even equivocated these criticisms to a debate about a fictional character ("You guys might as well be bickering about Spider-Man."). That's not only incredibly dishonest, you really should be ashamed to stoop to such a level publicly. Intentionall…

It's simple: all this fever about GoodMusk vs. BadMusk has become bone-crushingly tedious. When that happens with anything, nothing can redeem it and it's off topic on Hacker News. I definitely don't mean to pick on you personally. Dozens of HN users have been filling the threads with this lately and it needs to stop. We literally can't moderate it all, and the Elonian Provocation is large enough to be capable of swa…

>nothing can redeem it and it's off topic on Hacker News.

That seems largely contradictory to the hacker ethos, no?

Re: Thailand cave rescue: all 12 boys and coach successfully rescued

#553

Post by fatmotherpucker »

shawabawa3 wrote: post #40
sillysaurus3 wrote: post #15

Can anyone explain how the heck they found the children in the first place? Seriously, I can't wrap my head around it. The kids were stranded 2.5 miles inside the cave. All anyone knew was that the kids didn't return form their hike. How does that lead to "Hey, let's dive into the cave and maybe we'll find live children"? I guess they were expecting the worst, but still.

This article explains it: https://www.mamamia.com.au/how-did-the-thai-boys-get-stuck-i... One of their class mates knew they'd gone to the cave, apparently as an initiation to the team, writing their names in the wall. Their bags were found outside the entrance They only went into the entrance of the cave but sudden monsoon rains blocked it and forced them further in as the water rose, all the way to 2.5km in to an e…

It was the birthday for one of the team members. To celebrate this day, the coach brought them to the cave(which was not the first time that they've been there), and they're supposed to race in to write their names at the first wall of the cave. Then heavy rain fell and water started flooding in when they tried to return. To survive, the only way is to go deeper in to the higher platform.

Re: Thailand cave rescue: all 12 boys and coach successfully rescued

#554

Post by fatmotherpucker »

eagsalazar2 wrote: post #141
eagsalazar2 wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was surprised to hear that there were long stretches of dry walking between their location in the cave and the cave entrance. In particular there were dry stretches prior to the very nasty tiny hole they all squeezed through. I guess they were panicked and ran further than they needed to just to be extra sure?

Also looking at the side-view diagrams of the cave, if they were running away from the entrance because it was starting to fill up, I'm surprised that very tight hole they crawled through wasn't also underwater at the time since it looks like it is as low or lower than the cave entrance itself. They descended to below the entrance altitude after having gained a lot of altitude. I know there are probably no answers bu…

It wasn't flooding in the tiniest passageway yet when they tried to escape. The only way to survive is going further in and not out of the entrance.

Re: Thailand cave rescue: all 12 boys and coach successfully rescued

#555

Post by fatmotherpucker »

sandworm101 wrote: post #52
sillysaurus3 wrote: post #15

Can anyone explain how the heck they found the children in the first place? Seriously, I can't wrap my head around it. The kids were stranded 2.5 miles inside the cave. All anyone knew was that the kids didn't return form their hike. How does that lead to "Hey, let's dive into the cave and maybe we'll find live children"? I guess they were expecting the worst, but still.

The cave was well known and documented. They made an educated guess about what happened, where they would have fled, and where the air pockets would be.

This cave was not new to them and one of the kids didn't go because he didn't have his bike with him after soccer training. Some kids did inform the parents about it too.

Re: Thailand cave rescue: all 12 boys and coach successfully rescued

#556

Post by fatmotherpucker »

sillysaurus3 wrote: post #59
sametmax wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The amazing part to me is that it was 12 kids and one adult. Between the fear and the biological needs, I wonder what kept them alive for so long. First, the first time I fasted I was quited stressed about it, and it was in controlled, cozy environment. Second, they didn't know if anybody would come. Not even if somebody could come. For 9 days without eating and living in their own shit in the dark, they wondered. I'…

The coach. He shared what little rations they had, and his condition was visibly worse than the children by the time they were found. He also helped them by teaching them meditation, so as not to focus on their hunger.

The coach is the key. His parents passed away when he was young and he was brought up by his grandmother. He was a monk for about 10 years. He taught them how to meditate constantly even during training when the kids couldn't control their temper. This crisis puts the kids into the test, proved the power of meditation and team spirit.

Re: Thailand cave rescue: all 12 boys and coach successfully rescued

#557

Post by lern_too_spel »

anon12345690 wrote: post #529
lern_too_spel wrote: post #454

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Many are not separated from parents but from strangers. These aren't the ones that the uproar is about. The uproar is about the children who have been separated from their parents, not the children being held in foster care or holding facilities in general. The 3000 separated from parents is a number from HHS Secretary Azar. The Trump administration updated that number to 2342 children separated from 2206 parents.

the parents have committed a crime and the kids will be reunited later if they are real family it happens to families everyday that are citizens too not a big deal and the kids are still doing better than before, no reason for the uproar

> not a big deal and the kids are still doing better than before, no reason for the uproar

Somehow, they handled it just fine and at lower cost without family separation before. If so, why separate them except due to racism? They are now having trouble reuniting families weeks later because of improper tracking.

Re: Thailand cave rescue: all 12 boys and coach successfully rescued

#558

Post by joejerryronnie »

Udik wrote: post #531
joejerryronnie wrote: post #464

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel like that is overly simplistic. The world is not black and white.

True, of course it's a simplification. What I meant to say is that the militaristic argument will always be that you'd rather avoid war, but you're forced into it. This doesn't mean that it's never true- but rather that you should be highly suspicious of the claim.

Yes, this is definitely true. The sincere form of this argument is very easily co-opted by the military industrial complex.

Re: Thailand cave rescue: all 12 boys and coach successfully rescued

#559

Post by dekhn »

dang wrote: post #550
kadenshep wrote: post #536

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please elaborate? I presented an actual perspective. You have gone around these threads and insulted and demeaned people with a different opinion than the majority and then even equivocated these criticisms to a debate about a fictional character ("You guys might as well be bickering about Spider-Man."). That's not only incredibly dishonest, you really should be ashamed to stoop to such a level publicly. Intentionall…

It's simple: all this fever about GoodMusk vs. BadMusk has become bone-crushingly tedious. When that happens with anything, nothing can redeem it and it's off topic on Hacker News. I definitely don't mean to pick on you personally. Dozens of HN users have been filling the threads with this lately and it needs to stop. We literally can't moderate it all, and the Elonian Provocation is large enough to be capable of swa…

Hmm. I don't agree. I think we're on the turn of the tide where the hacker community and the media will stop fawning over him if we repeatedly and politely point out that he's an attention-seeking person but that doesn't mean he needs to have news coverage.

Re: Thailand cave rescue: all 12 boys and coach successfully rescued

#560

Post by dang »

kadenshep wrote: post #552
dang wrote: post #550

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's simple: all this fever about GoodMusk vs. BadMusk has become bone-crushingly tedious. When that happens with anything, nothing can redeem it and it's off topic on Hacker News. I definitely don't mean to pick on you personally. Dozens of HN users have been filling the threads with this lately and it needs to stop. We literally can't moderate it all, and the Elonian Provocation is large enough to be capable of swa…

>nothing can redeem it and it's off topic on Hacker News. That seems largely contradictory to the hacker ethos, no?

It's a fair question, but the answer is no, because of the tragedy of the commons. That is, you may be right at the individual level, but it's unfortunately common for the sum total of individual effects to become something completely contrary to what any of the individuals would want. We have to manage the site at that sum-total level. This means telling people "don't do the things that produce lousy systemic effects", even though any one of those things might be fine when considered independently.
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