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Ask HN: As a team lead how to handle project going off the rails?

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Re: Ask HN: As a team lead how to handle project going off the rails?

#101
post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well put. Deadlines often slip. It happens ALL THE TIME, regardless of elaborate and sophisticated project management techniques and skilled contributors. Deadline slippage is also RARELY FATAL, but yeah, leads/PM's can absolutely get themselves metaphorically shot by bearing bad news to the wrong people at the wrong time. Some orgs hire a ridiculous number of PMP's who pretend like they're making a difference but ar…

> Best thing OP can do is learn from the mistakes and speak up next time during planning phases, well before deadlines slip. How do you know deadlines are going to slip when planning the project? Makes no sense.

experience

Re: Ask HN: As a team lead how to handle project going off the rails?

#102
post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well put. Deadlines often slip. It happens ALL THE TIME, regardless of elaborate and sophisticated project management techniques and skilled contributors. Deadline slippage is also RARELY FATAL, but yeah, leads/PM's can absolutely get themselves metaphorically shot by bearing bad news to the wrong people at the wrong time. Some orgs hire a ridiculous number of PMP's who pretend like they're making a difference but ar…

> Best thing OP can do is learn from the mistakes and speak up next time during planning phases, well before deadlines slip. How do you know deadlines are going to slip when planning the project? Makes no sense.

After you gain experience from previous slipped deadlines, you can see patterns that lead to slippage and, more importantly, get wise to the smell of unrealistic expectations. That's how you know that deadlines are going to slip.

Re: Ask HN: As a team lead how to handle project going off the rails?

#103
post #51

This is not going to be like the other advice you get, but I've managed many projects in different organizations and I think it is sound. First and foremost, don't sound any alarms. Many organizations have common characteristics in this regard. First, they don't expect you to be on time. Sales may think you're going to launch on time, but it's in their financial interest to think so. The rest of the org probably made…

> Third, people do shoot the bearer of bad news.

As someone who has been a bearer of bad news, this is a sound advice. Most of the time you are told - "At least give it a try". And even if you tell them - "I did try but still likely we will miss the deadline". They will ask you to check again.

It is mind-numbing when it happens the first time. And most of the time you get disillusioned and think - "I need to look for another job". Guess what? Every corporate works like this. All about positivity and "You can do this" messages. And most importantly people setting up super-aggressive timelines knowing well that you are going to fail.

> Second, unless you're in a startup where everyone's inexperienced,

Curious about this though. So, as per you startups are run by people who don't know how to run projects?

Re: Ask HN: As a team lead how to handle project going off the rails?

#104
This is basically normal. Virtually every software project, except incredibly simple ones, has delays. People, even experienced ones, are very, very bad at estimating.

Just meet with your boss and manager and explain the issues, sooner than later. If the product owner is still in denial, well, you told them... They have to face reality.

Re: Ask HN: As a team lead how to handle project going off the rails?

#105
post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well put. Deadlines often slip. It happens ALL THE TIME, regardless of elaborate and sophisticated project management techniques and skilled contributors. Deadline slippage is also RARELY FATAL, but yeah, leads/PM's can absolutely get themselves metaphorically shot by bearing bad news to the wrong people at the wrong time. Some orgs hire a ridiculous number of PMP's who pretend like they're making a difference but ar…

> Best thing OP can do is learn from the mistakes and speak up next time during planning phases, well before deadlines slip. How do you know deadlines are going to slip when planning the project? Makes no sense.

How to do you know? Because they almost always slip. Take the original estimate, which is always optimistic, double it, add another 50% "just in case", and you're a lot closer.

Re: Ask HN: As a team lead how to handle project going off the rails?

#106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hate to agree with you. This honesty/positivity dilemma is something I'm struggling with.

Occasionally people talk about the "compliment sandwich". 1. Focus on something going well. 2. By the way, could you fix this little thing? 3. Return to positive stuff. This formula can be applied to delivering honesty amid positivity. Ideally whoever you're communicating is mature enough to just take honest feedback straight, but if they aren't then this can be a safe(r) way to deliver it.

This seemingly simple tactic, WORKS. It works even with mature folks. It is just harder to be angry when someone pads your ego or your mood even just a little bit. The 'compliment' does not even have to be direct or a compliment per se, it can even be something positive like news/results about the initiant or a third party. You are just pulling out some positive endorphin mojo, to slow down the angry mojo.

Re: Ask HN: As a team lead how to handle project going off the rails?

#107
post #51

This is not going to be like the other advice you get, but I've managed many projects in different organizations and I think it is sound. First and foremost, don't sound any alarms. Many organizations have common characteristics in this regard. First, they don't expect you to be on time. Sales may think you're going to launch on time, but it's in their financial interest to think so. The rest of the org probably made…

There's no reason you can't have an off-the-books meeting and discuss this (separately) with your boss and the PO. No need to go to the extra step of setting up a lunch or having a drink with them, especially if it's not something you do regularly.

If you've been there for 3 years and never had a drink socially with the PO (who presumably OP doesn't report to other than in this status report context) then you suggest it just so you can talk about how you're not hitting the schedule, it's possible they don't take it well.

Re: Ask HN: As a team lead how to handle project going off the rails?

#108
post #12

I suspect that you did not managed expectations. PO was not really working as the proper owner and have no clue about progress and effort being put. Your direct manager does not care as it can always blame everything on you. And the team is not so great if they have problems with "comfort zone". First get PO on board. Choose the process that will push PO into the central role: Kanban, Scrum, XP(anything really). Work…

And if it's an online solution, propose to roll out some features gradually. But yeah: 1. Be honest with everyone 2. Invest in online courses for everyone 3. Lay out a simple roadmap for the minimum MVP 4. Hustle And next time use my recipe for estimating. Spend ~ a day on this. 1. Split up everything into the smallest subtasks 2. Estimate the time all subtasks take. Uncertain? Write down a low and a high. Still unce…

Personally I prefer story points per card, and then calculating the average velocity of the team per sprint vs. the number of story points left in the backlog. This presumes a deadline more than a sprint away, though, since it's a little fuzzier. Mostly it keeps people away from saying "Hey, we said this card would only take X hours!"

Re: Ask HN: As a team lead how to handle project going off the rails?

#109
In addition to the other advice here, regarding how to handle this politically and from a communication perspective, I think you need to quantify to what extent you're not going to make the release.

- You need to write down all the things that need to be done, the granularity of task should be between half a day and two days. (Anything larger than 2 days will be a task like "refactor this system" that hasn't been though through enough, and thus likely to be completely wrong.) Do this in a meeting with all your team members, they will be telling you what they foresee they need to do.

- If you can't estimate things, because e.g. the system design hasn't even been started yet for those things, you need to design them, at least on a very high level. So that you know, at least to some extent, how long you think they're going to take.

- Write down estimates for the aforementioned tasks, in person-days, by getting your team members to estimate these tasks.

- Ideally use some kind of task planning system such as MS Project, LiquidPlanner, manuscript.com or some JIRA plug-ins that can handle this sort of stuff. But even a Google Spreadsheet shared between your colleagues will be better than nothing.

- Now you'll know an end date. How far out is it? 4 months rather than 3? 12 months rather than 3? That makes a difference. If you're going to be late, you management may wish to give you an extension. If the project's going to take another year, management may wish to cancel or change the requirements significantly. You have to provide them with the information to enable them to make that choice.

- If it's decided to continue, then update that spreadsheet all the time. Get your team members to update it, and if they don't do that, then talk to them every few days and get them to tell you what they still need to do. Focus only on the future: remove tasks when they're done, add new tasks as they arise, change estimates on tasks as they're partially completed. So even if you decide to continue, maybe in one month it becomes apparent you haven't made as much progress as you'd like, or there have been unforeseen difficulties resulting in more tasks. Know if it's going off track again as soon as possible.

Estimate will be wrong. Things always take longer. This is a minimum bound. But if your spreadsheet says you need another 12 months on a project that only has 3 months to go, you can be sure that it won't be done in e.g. 2 months, that's useful information to have.

Re: Ask HN: As a team lead how to handle project going off the rails?

#110
post #88
post #51

This is not going to be like the other advice you get, but I've managed many projects in different organizations and I think it is sound. First and foremost, don't sound any alarms. Many organizations have common characteristics in this regard. First, they don't expect you to be on time. Sales may think you're going to launch on time, but it's in their financial interest to think so. The rest of the org probably made…

I don’t understand why he/she needs to sugercoat things so much and do things over lunch, drinks/beer? Imagine this is a female lead asking her male boss out for drinks so she can be the casual bearer of bad news? That’s just bull. If your organization isn’t willing to get real and is blaming people instead of processes, it’s the wrong org to be. Just say things as they are. I’d just raise this in my 1:1 with boss an…

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