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MacBook Pro with faster performance and new features for pros

apple.com

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Re: MacBook Pro with faster performance and new features for pros

#211

Post by fortythirteen »

bunderbunder wrote: post #173
r0fl wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They didn't do that because it is not what most people want. Apple has to make changes that will sell more laptops to the masses to maximize shareholder value. The niche developer/macrumors posters will never be happy regardless of what Apple does. Better to focus on the 90% of customers who buy products and make up 10% of the complaints then to focus on the 10% of customers who make up 90% of the complaints.

> The niche developer/macrumors posters will never be happy regardless of what Apple does. Haven't done a survey, but quite a few folks I know who work at Mac shops report that their employers have been steering clear of the new MacBooks and just trying to keep the older models they already have alive, while also looking seriously into the feasibility of switching to PCs running Linux if they don't get their act toge…

I'm being forced into an timed upgrade by corporate and I couldn't be unhappier. If some of the extraneous software needed to work in the environment wasn't Mac/Windows only, I'd request a hi-res Thinkpad and throw Linux on it. Even my ~2010 iMac at home runs Ubuntu.

Re: MacBook Pro with faster performance and new features for pros

#213

Post by modzu »

latch wrote: post #30

After ongoing problems and repairs with my gen 2 butterfly, I switched to Linux (Ubuntu). After many months, I'm still a little shocked at how much worse the desktop experience is. 11 year old OS X Leopard is more consistent, intuitive and usable. Hardware is slightly less polished, but no major complaints there (except for how poor the buying experience was). Still, keyboard works. It would take something amazing to…

i know. dammit. i think the part of the brain that allows one to use linux in the first place (ie bash) is at odds with the aesthetic and visual centers of the brain. seriously.

that said, with a non-trivial amount of time and work, you can get your desktop experience to be pretty slick. but it requires knowing your desktop environments, window managers, compositors, default apps, etc...

Re: MacBook Pro with faster performance and new features for pros

#214

Post by mschaef »

mgkimsal wrote: post #144
mschaef wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It is well known that Ubuntu is going through a phase of rapid change at the moment. I understand how you feel but I'm pretty sure the quality and consistency will only increase from here on. People have been saying things like that about various Linuxes for over 20 years, and it still isn't close.

> People have been saying things like that about various Linuxes for over 20 years, and it still isn't close. That was part of my reason for going full mac 10 years ago. Had one in the house, but my main laptops were linux. And it was always such a pain, wireless networking in particular. And ever few months I'd hear/read "oh, but ubuntu's great - everything just works ". And then I'd try it on a new laptop, and thin…

> I got too tired of wrestling with all that crap and switched to a macbook.

This is pretty much exactly my experience. There were usually ways to make things work on Linux, but it always required more effort than it was worth. Back in school, spending that effort made sense because it was a learning experience and at the time that was my primary goal. These days, there are enough competing priorities in my life that spending hours wrestling with my computer to make it perform basic functionality just isn't worth the opportunity cost. (I could be learning something people value or doing paid work or spending time with my family or exercising....)

One of the things I did love about Linux was the ability to switch to a tiling window manager. That said, as nice as it was, customizations required modifying C source code and writing scripts and never did work nearly as well as anything else. (In particular, I never figured out the right NetworkManager incantations to connect to a new WiFi network.)

https://github.com/mschaef/dwm-tools

To put this in perspective, my experience with Linux dates back to 1994, installing SLS from floppies on a 486/33. There has always been this belief that 'the community' will solve the problems and turn Linux into a fully competitive desktop platform. While there's definitely been progress, the reality is that the community has neither the time nor the attention to achieve near the level of polish that the vast majority of people expect these days. (Note that I don't view this as necessarily a problem, just an artifact of people making the same sorts of resource allocations choices for themselves that I described myself making back in the first paragraph.)

Re: MacBook Pro with faster performance and new features for pros

#215

Post by nkcmr »

I would pay a lot for a 15 of the current model that did NOT have a touch bar. Everything about the new MBPs I can deal with except that.

Also, the fact that they keep the higher spec-d models with the touch bar and if you want no touch bar you have to get low-spec-d 13s is downright hostile to consumer choice.

Please Apple, you're leaving money on the table here.

Re: MacBook Pro with faster performance and new features for pros

#216

Post by baq »

Puer wrote: post #158
Cthulhu_ wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You say that but it's the vocal but happy 10% that can sway the 90% to buy it. Mac wouldn't have been as big as it is today without its fans. The ones that complain are your best customers, because the ones that don't just walk away without giving you feedback as to why they walk away. The 90% is too indifferent to speak up.

You're greatly overestimating the tech community's importance. The average person doesn't need any swaying to buy Apple products.

that's how it is now but it didn't happen overnight and without a reason.

Re: MacBook Pro with faster performance and new features for pros

#217

Post by dorfsmay »

tvcgrid wrote: post #168
_bxg1 wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Macbook Pro has been the go-to software developer machine for years now, and that segment is seeing a massive exodus after the touch bar launch. I don't know how big a percentage that is of total sales, but it can't just be a trivial niche.

Is there a real, large exodus though? I don’t notice that, anecdotally, but others seem to (seemingly anecdotally too). Are there data about it? For the segment that are “professionals” or for work use, for example? At least broadly, 3Q saw Mac sales decline 7.5 percent YOY. But, the whole PC industry declined. So, I’m not sure what conclusions to draw — and in the absence of that it seems a bit hard to swing either…

I have no data, and I personally use Linux and track point equipped machines, but my observation is Mac fans paying for their computers with their own money are not buying the new macs. I suspect that the sales number are reflecting corporate sales. I think Apple should remember that it is people from the former group who have managed to arm-twist corporations to look at non-Windows machines, that and the slow rise of Linux acceptance in more and more companies should make them listen to people who don't want Windows want.

Re: MacBook Pro with faster performance and new features for pros

#218

Post by jetsnoc »

r0fl wrote: post #36
no1youknowz wrote: post #20

> The new keyboard has the same dimensions and look as its two predecessors, but the keys feel just a little bit different. They're quieter, for one thing. They have a softer, less click-y feel that is a little closer to the pre-2016 models' chiclet keys. We found the new keyboard to be a little nicer to type on, but it's not a radical difference. It's unlikely to convert the detractors, but it's a welcome iteration…

They didn't do that because it is not what most people want. Apple has to make changes that will sell more laptops to the masses to maximize shareholder value. The niche developer/macrumors posters will never be happy regardless of what Apple does. Better to focus on the 90% of customers who buy products and make up 10% of the complaints then to focus on the 10% of customers who make up 90% of the complaints.

In the article they cite the MBP as being the most popular notebook for developers so this niche must be important, otherwise why list it?:

> Already the most popular notebook for developers around the world, the new MacBook Pro can compile code faster and run multiple virtual machines and test environments easier than before.

What we want is a functional keyboard. They are losing this market-share quickly but you're right maybe they don't care about this market anymore. They must not since they aren't doing anything about it.

Re: MacBook Pro with faster performance and new features for pros

#219

Post by ppeetteerr »

darepublic wrote: post #118

Please give me back the escape key. I have a 2012 Macbook Pro it is very good.

If the 2012 MacBook is still good, then you should keep using it. When you're ready to upgrade, you will see that the new touch bar is just as good as the function keys, if not better. I used them every day.
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