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Employers will do almost anything to find workers except pay them more

latimes.com

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Re: Employers will do almost anything to find workers except pay them more

#421

Post by spiralx »

sdhgaiojfsa wrote: post #374
pjmorris wrote: post #364

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You raise fair points about the spending of money on physical assets/consumption. Can you elaborate similarly on the potential problems with how saved/invested money is allocated?

Well, at a very high level, banks can use saved money to lend to businesses or individuals at a given multiplier. If a bank has insufficient deposits, it can't lend any more money. This is called fractional-reserve banking. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fractional-reserve_banking So when you make a deposit, you are effectively causing a fraction of that deposit to be available for lending. This is what you're getting…

> If a bank has insufficient deposits, it can't lend any more money.

That's not actually true, banks effectively create money when making a loan, and the only constraints on this are the interest rate set by the central bank, which affects both demand for credit and the cost of providing it, and liquidity requirements set by legislation.

https://www.bankofengland.co.uk/-/media/boe/files/quarterly-...

Re: Employers will do almost anything to find workers except pay them more

#422

Post by shanghaiaway »

rorykoehler wrote: post #410
shanghaiaway wrote: post #400

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They don't surpass SV salaries but can definitely match EU wages.

I have seen that at the top end of the market it's not unusual for engineers to be paid salaries that compete with SV. Not sure about run of the mill engineering jobs though?

Yeah, standard engineering jobs won't pay that much but a senior engineer can get 40-50K EUR.

Re: Employers will do almost anything to find workers except pay them more

#423

Post by dredalious »

sametmax wrote: post #176
dredalious wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How and where did you find a US remote job whilst being/remaining in the EU? I'm a bit in the same street as you (freelancer, Belgium, previous experience with remote work). More on topic, I hear the same in Belgium, they want someone to work 24/7 basically for free and then they are surprised that the guy they hired isn't some kind of magical being that knows every language (for some reason this goes for both natura…

> How and where did you find a US remote job whilst being/remaining in the EU? I worked in Africa for a while, and got many American contacts there. I also have a very high ranked stackoverflow profile, and get offers from there. And I'm extremely active in the Python community. I'm not actively searching a job with an american company, but if I were, I would just apply to any american job offer that interest me as I…

Hmmm, should seriously up my github / stackoverflow game then. My clients tend to be in the more closed branches, not much opportunity to work or give back to the community.

After this client I'll apply to job offers more aggressively, see if that helps. Honestly, I just want to work from home most days instead of wasting my time in traffic.

I agree on business/management not comprehending the complexity of IT, it's one thing we need to try to do a better job of, at least to some degree. But I have turned down / terminated jobs because clients are unwilling to even try to understand what we do and simply want to stay stuck in their pre-computer/pre-internet way of thinking and working. IT is here to help your business move forward, but if you are unwilling (which includes paying the right people correct wages) there is nothing I can do for you.

Re: Employers will do almost anything to find workers except pay them more

#424

Post by sdhgaiojfsa »

spiralx wrote: post #421
sdhgaiojfsa wrote: post #374

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, at a very high level, banks can use saved money to lend to businesses or individuals at a given multiplier. If a bank has insufficient deposits, it can't lend any more money. This is called fractional-reserve banking. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fractional-reserve_banking So when you make a deposit, you are effectively causing a fraction of that deposit to be available for lending. This is what you're getting…

> If a bank has insufficient deposits, it can't lend any more money. That's not actually true, banks effectively create money when making a loan, and the only constraints on this are the interest rate set by the central bank, which affects both demand for credit and the cost of providing it, and liquidity requirements set by legislation. https://www.bankofengland.co.uk/-/media/boe/files/quarterly-...

The "liquidity requirements" you refer to are the fraction in "fractional-reserve." If I deposit $1, and then the bank's capital requirements are 75%, and they lend out $0.75, the total amount of money is now $1.75. This is what people are referring to when they say banks create money.

Re: Employers will do almost anything to find workers except pay them more

#425

Post by sdhgaiojfsa »

pjmorris wrote: post #393
sdhgaiojfsa wrote: post #374

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, at a very high level, banks can use saved money to lend to businesses or individuals at a given multiplier. If a bank has insufficient deposits, it can't lend any more money. This is called fractional-reserve banking. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fractional-reserve_banking So when you make a deposit, you are effectively causing a fraction of that deposit to be available for lending. This is what you're getting…

> any normal person with any financial savvy knows that market returns are much better than deposit returns And, if I understand the arguments, that's confirmed by Piketty's r (return on capital) > g (economic growth rate). My concern is that more money is getting tied up in chasing financial assets than in the real economy (houses, hamburgers, cows, etc.) If you have financial assets, that's good. If you don't, that…

You do not understand correctly. r vs. g has little to do with the return of debt vs. the return of certain classes of securities (since neither is pegged to economic growth). Rather, the return on deposits and the return on stocks are both part of a composite (r) that is meant to be greater than g.

Re: Employers will do almost anything to find workers except pay them more

#426

Post by koolba »

perl4ever wrote: post #405
koolba wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The unemployment benefit is 400+ euros per month. So tell me who in their right minds would go to work for 500 euros or even 800 euros, whilst they have to spend petrol to get from and to work, work prolly 10+ hours a day, in the sun most likely cause thats what means tourism industry, There are always people who don't just want to live off the dole. Also a lot of the people who complain about crappy entry level wa…

"I'm curious what alternative you propose, a commune where workers decide on their own what they'll be working on?" Ever read about Sun Hydraulics? "At Sun, we have no job titles, no hierarchy, no formal job descriptions, no departments, no budgets, no direct sales channel, no close supervision, and only some work instructions." https://www.wallstreetdaily.com/2016/09/15/sun-hydraulics-sh...

There is no way that would work in the service industry.

Re: Employers will do almost anything to find workers except pay them more

#427

Post by dmichulke »

atlantic wrote: post #350
dmichulke wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The thing you describe is the narrative of the evil capitalist owner exploiting poor workers. Here's a thought experiment - those (tourism businesses) owners are making lots of money, so why not create such a business yourself (maybe with help of some external capital) and pay better wages and treat your staff better and pay taxes? Your clients will be much happier with you while having to pay the same. Other capital…

So what you're suggesting is that this person should not complain. Instead he should set up his own business, offer better salaries than everyone else, and single-handedly change the labour market of an entire country. Great suggestion. Why didn't I think of that?

> So what you're suggesting is that this person should not complain. Instead he should set up his own business, offer better salaries

Yes. Either yourself or maybe find someone else who does.

But if you find no one who solves it for you, the question stands whether the employer is indeed an evil guy or just doesn't have a lot of margin to hand out higher salaries. It's easy and lazy to assume evilness without ever having been there.

> and single-handedly change the labour market of an entire country. Great suggestion. Why didn't I think of that?

No.

Re: Employers will do almost anything to find workers except pay them more

#428

Post by dmichulke »

geezerjay wrote: post #368
dmichulke wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The thing you describe is the narrative of the evil capitalist owner exploiting poor workers. Here's a thought experiment - those (tourism businesses) owners are making lots of money, so why not create such a business yourself (maybe with help of some external capital) and pay better wages and treat your staff better and pay taxes? Your clients will be much happier with you while having to pay the same. Other capital…

> so why not create such a business yourself Not many people have €5M to build their own hotel, particularly those who are unemployed. Furthermore, not everyone can overcome all the barriers to entry, or have the know-how to keep a hotel operating.

> Not many people have €5M to build their own hotel

There are evil rich guys waiting to invest into a promising venture. Interest rates are at a record low. VCs are everywhere.

> particularly those who are unemployed

You just added that element to the discussion.

> Furthermore, not everyone can overcome all the barriers to entry, or have the know-how to keep a hotel operating.

That's an interesting point, maybe it's not so easy after all and maybe the risks and costs of operating the business is higher than the employee thinks.

Do it yourself and the you can complain and prove you have cash left over and hand it out. Then you can complain the guy is evil, the rest is mere speculation.

Note I am not saying it's easy (I know for a fact that it's hard). I'm just saying it's lazy and non-constructive to just assume the other guy being evil without knowing even 10% of what's going on and where the problems of the business lie.

Re: Employers will do almost anything to find workers except pay them more

#429

Post by dmichulke »

pnutjam wrote: post #289
dmichulke wrote: post #253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you're reading a little too much into my above comment. Just to reduce my point to the basics: Either the evil guy makes lots of money (in the sense of profit) -> You start your own business in the same sector -> get some of that market share and profit -> pay your workers better -> everyone is happy except evil guy Or the evil guy doesn't make a lot of money -> He cannot pay his workers more -> He's not the…

Your a fool if you don't see how the "evil guy" can undercut the good guy all day long. Evil has a pause button.

In a way you're saying I'm correct.

Let's just stop complaining and force evil guys to press the pause button by competing with them.

As a side note, it is an open question whether truly evil guys have a pause button (I assume Sauron and Darth Vader don't have one) or whether there are other things at work.

Maybe those guys just spent years living close to poverty to make their start-up a huge success. Maybe not. Just saying there are somewhat understandable reasons that don't necessarily mean the guy is evil.

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