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A biologist who believes that trees speak a language we can learn to listen to

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Re: A biologist who believes that trees speak a language we can learn to listen to

#111

Post by pvaldes »

fao_ wrote: post #35
kpnbg wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hey, you're right. Although another huge difference is that lions didn't evolve to be intelligent enough to learn to farm, invent mathematics, leave the planet etc. We are hunters, and what is going on now is a logical progression of what hunters who got smarter and more powerful would do. It sounds silly but I think that if any other hunter animal evolved like us, it would lead to very similar results. I am not a fa…

How many people do you know have left the planet, or could solve a mathematical theorem, eh? The difference is that before, we hunted enough to eat, but not so much that the species died, whereas now we are willing to exterminate a species if it means we can get rid of other versions of us ('Every buffalo dead, is a dead indian'). Seems like we've got more callous and stupid the more this 'intelligence' was displayed…

The name of the people that had leaved the planet is not exactly a secret.

> we hunted enough to eat, but not so much that the species died

Yep, the myth of the good savage. Mammooth, Moas, European Wolly Rhino, Megalania giant varanus, Meiolania turtle, Sabre tooth tiger, Cave bear or Australian Diprotodon could tell us a different hystory.

Re: A biologist who believes that trees speak a language we can learn to listen to

#112

Post by sjy »

dumb2223 wrote: post #63
close04 wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well... "out of necessity" is actually an idiom, meaning "because you have to". Since need and necessity are very similar in meaning I assume this is a correct statement. But I'm not a native English speaker this may of course be a common mistake. Regardless, I hope the idea stands.

Since we are trying to learn the tree language, I hope people don't get annoyed if I wonder about what is the mental state that converts "out of" into "because". If necessity was a generator, a vector or force for movements or actions, then I could understand that use of "out of". Out of indicates the result produced by a force, algorithm or oracle. But I consider necessity not as a generator or force but as a passiv…

There is a great explanation of the difference between 'because of' and 'out of' in an answer to this question on English Language Learners SE [1]:

> You should use "because of" in cases like this when the thing in question is the catalyst for something to happen, and use "out of" when the thing in question metaphorically "gives rise" to something else.

[1]: https://ell.stackexchange.com/questions/115445/can-i-use-bec...

Re: A biologist who believes that trees speak a language we can learn to listen to

#113

Post by Swizec »

mockingbirdy wrote: post #104
some_account wrote: post #23

Humans can't perceive a lot of things, and on top of that, we have egos that makes us feel superior even though in reality, we are the only ones on the planet who can't live in harmony with other species. If you ever had a cat and really observed it and communicated with it, you know it has feelings and emotions. Birds have it also, so does pigs, horses... But we just ignore all that when it's convenient for us to ea…

> But we just ignore all that when it's convenient for us to eat them. I don't necessarily agree with your misanthropy (I don't see the broader point of it - "my plan for humanity: let's self-annihilate, we suck"?). But I'm interested in psychology. And there are studies that show that people perceive cows as dumb while eating them . When they get asked before and after eating meat, the same people said that cows are…

I would love to read some of those studies. That sounds fascinating!

> despite the fact that we normally know about the human-like qualities of the animals we eat.

Didn't there used to be whole cultures (like the Aztec, I think) where cannibalism was a mostly normal part of life? That seems like a pretty extreme version of this cognitive dissonance.

"You're human but you're tasty and I'm hungry soooo ..."

Re: A biologist who believes that trees speak a language we can learn to listen to

#114

Post by trhway »

hiisukun wrote: post #65

I once listened to a great radio show [1] on trees communicating (in a way) and sharing resources through a network of fungus that connects their roots in a forest. I can recommend listening if that interests you more than reading a related wiki page [2], but both are cool. [1] https://www.wnycstudios.org/story/from-tree-to-shining-tree/ [2] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mycorrhizal_network

>trees communicating (in a way) and sharing resources through a network of fungus

when i listened to that (or similar) show i was wondering - whether it is trees communicating through fungus or whether it is the fungus managing and herding the trees like say we do with cattle.

Re: A biologist who believes that trees speak a language we can learn to listen to

#115

Post by collyw »

xd wrote: post #85
some_account wrote: post #23

Humans can't perceive a lot of things, and on top of that, we have egos that makes us feel superior even though in reality, we are the only ones on the planet who can't live in harmony with other species. If you ever had a cat and really observed it and communicated with it, you know it has feelings and emotions. Birds have it also, so does pigs, horses... But we just ignore all that when it's convenient for us to ea…

I'm not a big fan of humanity. We are pretty awful. Self loathing of the human race needs to stop, there are an incredible number of hard working people making the world a better place one step at a time. Our impact on the world barely registers to past extinction level events. Humanity has just as much right to exist and be as any other species. If you don't like what we are doing, work to improve things. Are you aw…

As a species we seem to be a cancer on the planet. We are pretty much responsive for the current mass extinction event. That doesn't mean that individuals aren't good.

Re: A biologist who believes that trees speak a language we can learn to listen to

#116

Post by deodorel »

close04 wrote: post #50
TeMPOraL wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not about tendencies. Intelligence is about being better at getting what you want. A lion wants to eat impala. A smart lion would figure out how to breed them in captivity, and it's only a small step from there to factory farming.

How many smart lions would kill every impala and then wonder if they can switch to grass? :) Farming is after all pretty sustainable. But how about the things that aren't? We're over-exploiting basically every limited resource we have. Ironically we kind of ignore the unlimited ones, like wind, solar, etc. We're cutting down forests like there's no tomorrow and they literally make our oxygen. And worse, sometimes thi…

Actually most of the oxygen is generated by ocean plankton. The trees, sure have their part.

Re: A biologist who believes that trees speak a language we can learn to listen to

#117

Post by stared »

some_account wrote: post #23

Humans can't perceive a lot of things, and on top of that, we have egos that makes us feel superior even though in reality, we are the only ones on the planet who can't live in harmony with other species. If you ever had a cat and really observed it and communicated with it, you know it has feelings and emotions. Birds have it also, so does pigs, horses... But we just ignore all that when it's convenient for us to ea…

In that vein there is "The Great Silence" - a short, beautiful and sad story by Ted Chiang: http://supercommunity.e-flux.com/texts/the-great-silence/.

Re: A biologist who believes that trees speak a language we can learn to listen to

#118

Post by usrusr »

rimliu wrote: post #66
some_account wrote: post #23

Humans can't perceive a lot of things, and on top of that, we have egos that makes us feel superior even though in reality, we are the only ones on the planet who can't live in harmony with other species. If you ever had a cat and really observed it and communicated with it, you know it has feelings and emotions. Birds have it also, so does pigs, horses... But we just ignore all that when it's convenient for us to ea…

One of the most awful trait in humans I observe is disdain fo the own species in favour of other. There is no harmony in the nature, just an equilibrium. We are the nature as is everything else.

We are definitely not part of any equilibrium right now.

Re: A biologist who believes that trees speak a language we can learn to listen to

#119

Post by novia »

theNewMicrosoft wrote: post #48
fao_ wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How many people do you know have left the planet, or could solve a mathematical theorem, eh? The difference is that before, we hunted enough to eat, but not so much that the species died, whereas now we are willing to exterminate a species if it means we can get rid of other versions of us ('Every buffalo dead, is a dead indian'). Seems like we've got more callous and stupid the more this 'intelligence' was displayed…

> How many people do you know have left the planet Not yet but she's planning[?] to leave "soon" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alyssa_Carson

Mars One is noted as being very short on funding, lacking critical concepts about hardware, life support, electrical power supply, and has been criticized as glossing over logistics, medical concerns, and protection against space radiation.

Re: A biologist who believes that trees speak a language we can learn to listen to

#120

Post by sAbakumoff »

erik_seaberg wrote: post #94
sAbakumoff wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

could you please mind your own business? what are you, unsubstantive police or something?

Pretty much, yeah. https://blog.ycombinator.com/meet-the-people-taking-over-hac...

Ok, as I screwed up anyways, here is one more "unsubstantial" comment: ooops!
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