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A biologist who believes that trees speak a language we can learn to listen to

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Re: A biologist who believes that trees speak a language we can learn to listen to

#81

Post by Joakal »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #42
some_account wrote: post #23

Humans can't perceive a lot of things, and on top of that, we have egos that makes us feel superior even though in reality, we are the only ones on the planet who can't live in harmony with other species. If you ever had a cat and really observed it and communicated with it, you know it has feelings and emotions. Birds have it also, so does pigs, horses... But we just ignore all that when it's convenient for us to ea…

> we are the only ones on the planet who can't live in harmony with other species. This "harmony" is really just interlocking loops of unconstrained growth, followed by running out of resources, and starvation while the food supply regenerates. It only looks pretty if you ain't looking very carefully. In fact, human beings seem to be the only ones observed with a capability for restraint . We're not very good at prac…

There's fed sharks at aquariums and there's tigers with human trainers. When well fed, predators don't care about the potential food presented.

For nature? There's reports of predators in wild ignoring humans, possibly because they ate already. One obvious example are snakes.

Re: A biologist who believes that trees speak a language we can learn to listen to

#83

Post by harperlee »

To me, there needs to be a differentiation between communicating and speaking. If you broadcast information and another entity receives it, and uses it, that is not dialogue - just reactions. Even if through an evolutionary game the species reaches effective communication (predators, plagues, etc.), and complex feedback loops emerge, resembling a dialogue, there seems to be something lacking - perhaps the ability to query the other for specific information would be a good litmus test for it?

Re: A biologist who believes that trees speak a language we can learn to listen to

#84

Post by mamon »

sametmax wrote: post #58
TeMPOraL wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> we are the only ones on the planet who can't live in harmony with other species. This "harmony" is really just interlocking loops of unconstrained growth, followed by running out of resources, and starvation while the food supply regenerates. It only looks pretty if you ain't looking very carefully. In fact, human beings seem to be the only ones observed with a capability for restraint . We're not very good at prac…

> Have you seen a pack of animals or plants jointly deciding to voluntarily forgo extra food Actually, the only animals I know to become obese are humans, and animals that are attached to humans. You may say it's because they don't have an unlimited supply of food, but actually, many animals do, or used to have before we destroyed it. Of course, they don't really forgo extra food, they use it to multiply their number…

Obesity comes from the type of food you eat, not just quantity. Humans are the only species that invented glucose-fructose syrup and other highly processed foods. Feed that to any wild animal an they will become obese as well.

Re: A biologist who believes that trees speak a language we can learn to listen to

#85

Post by xd »

some_account wrote: post #23

Humans can't perceive a lot of things, and on top of that, we have egos that makes us feel superior even though in reality, we are the only ones on the planet who can't live in harmony with other species. If you ever had a cat and really observed it and communicated with it, you know it has feelings and emotions. Birds have it also, so does pigs, horses... But we just ignore all that when it's convenient for us to ea…

I'm not a big fan of humanity. We are pretty awful.

Self loathing of the human race needs to stop, there are an incredible number of hard working people making the world a better place one step at a time. Our impact on the world barely registers to past extinction level events. Humanity has just as much right to exist and be as any other species. If you don't like what we are doing, work to improve things.

Are you aware how many countless people have and do work to improve your quality of life, protect you, make sure you are fed and watered and provided with distractions like HN to complain about how awful we are.

Re: A biologist who believes that trees speak a language we can learn to listen to

#86

Post by vinchuco »

Here is also slime mold 'communicating' their knowledge to other slime mold https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17491547 .

For anyone that is fascinated by nature studies and would like to be exposed to more of them rather than the article about the article I can't recommend PNAS enough. Part of what motivated me to continue graduate studies.

Re: A biologist who believes that trees speak a language we can learn to listen to

#87

Post by chicob »

rimliu wrote: post #66
some_account wrote: post #23

Humans can't perceive a lot of things, and on top of that, we have egos that makes us feel superior even though in reality, we are the only ones on the planet who can't live in harmony with other species. If you ever had a cat and really observed it and communicated with it, you know it has feelings and emotions. Birds have it also, so does pigs, horses... But we just ignore all that when it's convenient for us to ea…

One of the most awful trait in humans I observe is disdain fo the own species in favour of other. There is no harmony in the nature, just an equilibrium. We are the nature as is everything else.

I agree. If we're speaking about an understanding of the deep connection between all species in this planet, and how it all relates to extinct species and old ecosystems, the human being is the only species in all of Earth's history that ever became aware of it.

People often seem to assume non-human species partake of some universal wisdom that humans have left behind. This is a pretty shallow narrative of "lost innocence", that ignores what other species are and how they relate to each other.

If there is an animal that does care, that is Homo sapiens.

Re: A biologist who believes that trees speak a language we can learn to listen to

#88

Post by King-Aaron »

ItsMe000001 wrote: post #61
close04 wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think he mean the main difference would be that animals mostly kill (probably applies to most of their other actions) out of need (protection, food). Humans destroy things because they can many times. Sometimes it's not about needs ... unless for example you consider greed to be a need.

Animals kill "for fun" too. Not just cats (example: https://www.usnews.com/news/world/articles/2018-04-30/wolf-a... -- note: that was a single wolf, not a pack; and do you know what happens when a marten finds its way into the chicken coop? Chicken genocide).

This discussion reminds me of the Tsavo Man-Eaters - a pair of lions that decided to focus mainly on hunting humans for food.

Although there were possible health factors that drove these lions to preying on humans, I find it an interesting aside to this conversation.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tsavo_Man-Eaters

Re: A biologist who believes that trees speak a language we can learn to listen to

#89

Post by thret »

close04 wrote: post #45
jpttsn wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cats, birds, and pigs are in turn happy to eat humans when convenient.

I think he mean the main difference would be that animals mostly kill (probably applies to most of their other actions) out of need (protection, food). Humans destroy things because they can many times. Sometimes it's not about needs ... unless for example you consider greed to be a need.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gombe_Chimpanzee_War

It's not the behaviour that is unique to humans; it is the ability to act counter to instinct, counter to appetite, to choose and be aware of the consequences. We alone can be held accountable for our actions.

Re: A biologist who believes that trees speak a language we can learn to listen to

#90

Post by King-Aaron »

zjaffee wrote: post #67
ItsMe000001 wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Animals kill "for fun" too. Not just cats (example: https://www.usnews.com/news/world/articles/2018-04-30/wolf-a... -- note: that was a single wolf, not a pack; and do you know what happens when a marten finds its way into the chicken coop? Chicken genocide).

Do other animals go to war, commit genocide, or in the context of our relationship with other animals, do anything similar to factory farming.

Some ants "farm" aphids: https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/10/071009212548.h...
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