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Thank you, Ubuntu

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Re: Thank you, Ubuntu

#91

Post by dinkumthinkum »

india wrote: post #88
fauigerzigerk wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The package manager concept is actually what I hate most about Linux systems and Ubuntu's strategy to not let you upgrade some packages without upgrading the OS itself is insane. Packages tend to thrust some completely idiosyncratic configuration scheme down my throat that is documented nowhere and that creates conflicts of its own. They don't just solve dependencies they encourage dependencies because they are suppo…

> The package manager concept is actually what I hate most about Linux systems You really should give Slackware a try. None of that sophisticated package management nuisance[1] and everything just works! [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slackware#Package_management

I'm not sure I would say "everything just works" and Slackware in the same sentencd!

Re: Thank you, Ubuntu

#92

Post by barnaby »

endlessvoid94 wrote: post #86

I love ubuntu as much as the next guy. I run all my servers with ubuntu. But to say that Mac OS X is not as usable as ubuntu is blatantly wrong.

I too used to think like you do. But I've been using Ubuntu at work, and now when I go on a Mac I actually miss the usability features of Ubuntu.

Just a tiny example: hitting alt and clicking anywhere on a window to move it instead of going to that top bar. Or the multiple different ways to switch between apps. etc. etc. There's probably 100 small things that I now can't live without. So I would say the statement "Mac Os X is not as usable as Ubuntu" is actually true. Surprisingly.

Re: Thank you, Ubuntu

#93

Post by sandGorgon »

i am considering moving to fedora from ubuntu. one of my motivations is descriptions of better user experiences overall, plus more cutting edge stuff like systemd. morever i think i am growing more and more colored by the notion thar ubuntu doesnt really employ a significant number of core developers.

does anyone have experience of the differences in the daily experience of using fedora vs ubuntu, especially for a clean simple experience, as a developer machine setup?

Re: Thank you, Ubuntu

#94

Post by Mod_daniel »

MisterWebz wrote: post #21
wazoox wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The drivers problems are a manufacturer problem, not Ubuntu's. Complain against the manufacturer, so that they know that people actually want linux drivers. Vote with your wallet, buy linux compatible hardware. Don't blame Ubuntu for others' mistakes.

Sure, i might have unnecessarily blamed Ubuntu, but it's still a problem that needs to be fixed. And as long as that problem exists, i won't recommend Ubuntu to the average computer user.

Who is this "average computer user"? Anybody that makes the jump to Linux has a reason to(and there many, not just tinkerers), otherwise they stick with a windows machine or pony up for a mac.

Re: Thank you, Ubuntu

#95

Post by Symmetry »

Gormo wrote: post #78
dkarl wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They don't just solve dependencies they encourage dependencies This is a good thing. Developers' attitude toward dependencies gets very lax when it's too much work to declare them or too much work for the user to satisfy them. Then you get into situations where you install a piece of software and 90% of the functionality is broken, because the developer was "considerate" enough not to "force" a bunch of dependencies…

How about statically-linked builds? Hard drives and memory are cheap compared to the annoyances of having to manage dependencies on the user's system. Package management is a solution to a problem that doesn't need to exist in the first place.

Hard drive space is cheap but bandwidth less so. Having only one copy of a library makes downloading, installing, and updating your OS much easier.

Re: Thank you, Ubuntu

#96

Post by Symmetry »

koenigdavidmj wrote: post #80
Gormo wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How about statically-linked builds? Hard drives and memory are cheap compared to the annoyances of having to manage dependencies on the user's system. Package management is a solution to a problem that doesn't need to exist in the first place.

Then some central library has a security hole and half your system has to get updated, instead of just one thing. Also, you might like http://sta.li/ ;)

Generally speaking, two vulnerable apps is less than twice as bad as one vulnerable app - and if a centralized repository means that all of your apps are fixed sooner they its a big win.

Re: Thank you, Ubuntu

#97

Post by orky7 »

patio11 wrote: post #29
rbanffy wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There was a time when you had to carefully choose your hardware to work with Linux. These days, you have to carefully choose your hardware in order to experience problems. I am surprised by how many people do the latter.

If 95% of components work on Ubuntu, and your computer life involves 25 components (start counting, you'll hit it pretty quickly), Ubuntu is totally broken for about 75% or so of users. If Mom's camera or wireless doesn't work, she does not perceive the computer as being mostly functional.

all those components come with drivers provider by the vendor of that component for windows(mostly) machine only. Linux doing a great job catching on all those components but the thing is linux is mostly behind. if Vendors helps linux community a little we should be going hand in hand.

Re: Thank you, Ubuntu

#98

Post by code_duck »

patio11 wrote: post #29
rbanffy wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There was a time when you had to carefully choose your hardware to work with Linux. These days, you have to carefully choose your hardware in order to experience problems. I am surprised by how many people do the latter.

If 95% of components work on Ubuntu, and your computer life involves 25 components (start counting, you'll hit it pretty quickly), Ubuntu is totally broken for about 75% or so of users. If Mom's camera or wireless doesn't work, she does not perceive the computer as being mostly functional.

I actually did install Ubuntu on my mother's system and haven't had any such gadget shortcomings.

What kind of life of bizarre peripheral addiction do your loved ones live? I can count for myself wired USB headphones, a mouse, a printer, speakers, wireless headphones, a camera (if putting the card into the built in card reader counts), an iPod and... and.. well, that's only seven. They all work with no problem on Linux. What on earth are the other 18 that the average person uses?

We did have a problem with a USB GPS device, but overall the computer is actually lot more functional compared to back when I had to go over and uninstall a new virus and spyware suite every 30-40 days. My mother seems to like Ubuntu a lot, and when I took the computer the other day, she was complaining about using my Father's windows laptop. It was pretty classic, she wrote and said she missed her computer with the 'mozilla fox operating system.

Re: Thank you, Ubuntu

#99

Post by [deleted] »

fauigerzigerk wrote: post #85
pronoiac wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ubuntu's strategy to not let you upgrade some packages without upgrading the OS itself is insane. You can; it's called "pinning:" https://help.ubuntu.com/community/PinningHowto If I want Python 2 and 3 on the same system I can't have a package manager tell me that's not supposed to be when I know full well that it's no problem. Let me check; here on Jaunty I can separately install python2.4, python2.5, python2.6, pyt…

I guess what I'm "doing wrong" is to expect sensible out of the box behaviour. I'm fully aware that I can make it do whatever I want to if I put enough work into it. That holds for almost everything in life. What's limited in my life, though, is time. Installing Python 3 alongside the old version didn't work for a long time after Python 3 came out. If it works now, that's fine. I compiled my own Python 3 a long time…

[deleted]

Re: Thank you, Ubuntu

#100

Post by c00p3r »

IgorPartola wrote: post #17

I keep try to evangelize the fact that things like apt are one of the biggest wins for the various UNIX-like OS's. In Windows world installing software takes both finding it and configuring the installer. On a Mac you have to at least find it. On Ubuntu/Debian/etc you just have to know the name (or you can search a central database). Also no more Java/Flash player/Acrobat Reader "needs to be updated" messages. You up…

repeat after me: yum on top of rpm ecosystem are more flexible and friendly.

yum is the great step ahead in both flexibility and user-friendliness compared to apt.

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