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Solar Just Hit a Record Low Price in the U.S

earther.com

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Re: Solar Just Hit a Record Low Price in the U.S

#191

Post by walrus01 »

As a person who's built PV systems: The problem of generating enough kWh in a month is solved. In pallet load and container load quantities, good quality PV panels are now very affordable. Roof and ground mounting systems, DC power wiring and interconnect systems are highly developed, modular and easy to build with relatively unskilled labor.

The problem to be solved now is economical, reliable, long-lasting (in number of cycles) battery storage. Or some other form of storage to draw those kWh back from when the sun is down.

Re: Solar Just Hit a Record Low Price in the U.S

#192

Post by landryraccoon »

xahrepap wrote: post #45

Slightly off topic... Interesting thing about solar in Utah (maybe everywhere? Not sure about the specifics): Utah gives every land owner pollution credits. They're allowed to pollute X units worth per year or something like that. Depending on certain criteria you're allotted a certain amount of credits. The problem is, these credits are transferable. So if I, for example, don't pollute, I can sell my credits off to…

The status quo in most places is : pretty much people pollute however they want at zero marginal cost to themselves, without needing any credits, and passing on the costs to the environment as a whole.

The credits are an improvement, because polluters at least have to pay for pollution credits, which means they have an incentive to pollute less.

Re: Solar Just Hit a Record Low Price in the U.S

#193

Post by criddell »

ThomPete wrote: post #188
criddell wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've thought about adding solar to my home and can't see any reason why I should even consider a battery for storage. I'm in Texas and so I get plenty of sun and my peak energy demand happens to coincide with that sunlight (due to HVAC). Why should I worry about a complete solution?

Because you are also a taxpayer.

Huh? Are you talking about subsidies?

Re: Solar Just Hit a Record Low Price in the U.S

#194

Post by thinkcontext »

matt4077 wrote: post #172
inputcoffee wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You misunderstand the sense of "true" here. The point is not that the "true" price in the sense of what it ought to be. It is the "true" price in the sense of what the market is actually paying for the service. When people put out the number $23, they compare it with the cost of power and wonder why, if it is so much lower, it doesn't already swamp the current solution. So the purpose of the comment is to explain tha…

Yet the market isn't "actually paying" for battery storage at anywhere near the amount of installed solar capacity... Which was the point you misunderstood: dedicated storage installation are not needed at current production levels, and can be avoided even when solar's share of the energy mix grows. Among the possibilities are "smart" appliances scheduling their demand to production peaks (dishwashers can often wait…

You don't need 1:1 storage for solar production but it is a real problem. Germany and California are both facing the problem of the solar "duck curve", that is, high solar production during the day when demand is low and high electric usage at the end of the day when people get home from work as solar production is tailing off.

More than batteries they utilize gas peaker plants, inefficient, dirty and expensive plants that can ramp up and down quickly to match demand.

Re: Solar Just Hit a Record Low Price in the U.S

#195

Post by contextfree »

opo wrote: post #33
sol_remmy wrote: post #19

I would not trust a source called "earther.com" to tell me good news about solar because they're clearly going to be biased. When power industry magazines talk about solar being cheap then i'll believe it

PG&E has an option where you can choose to have 50% or 100% of your power come from solar: >...When you enroll, PG&E will purchase additional, new solar resources to meet your electricity needs as well as those of other participating customers. As you might have guessed, you pay a premium for his option: >...Your monthly electric energy statement will include a charge for the solar power you are purchasing and relate…

It looks like the premium has dropped rather dramatically just over the past couple of years (over 40% for average residential, and to almost zero for medium and large commercial.)

Re: Solar Just Hit a Record Low Price in the U.S

#196

Post by cletus »

inputcoffee wrote: post #71

The true price of solar is the price to produce reliable, continuous energy. That requires something to smooth out the signal and store the energy, most probably a battery. The solar + battery price is also going down, though not as fast as the solar only piece. But that's the metric we should be following. When that hits $30 per MWh, it'll be game over.

To quote Dwight... "False."

It is true that a wide electrical grid needs a base load.

It is also true that solar isn't great at continuous power because of, you know, the Sun sometimes being behind the Earth.

But that doesn't mean you need necessarily need batteries. There are at least two scenarios where you don't:

1. You have an alternative to batteries for storage. This could mean using excess solar power to create some fuel that may well also be portable. This isn't an economic way of creating gasoline (yet) but in remote places this might not matter. It also might not matter if this power is essentially "free" (eg you need to build a certain capacity anyway which leaves times where excess power is being generated).

2. Power usage on electrical grids is also not smooth. It also peaks during the day when, as it happens, the Sun is also out. So your solar capacity is actually reducing your peak grid power requirements, which is incredibly useful.

Re: Solar Just Hit a Record Low Price in the U.S

#197

Post by Mountain_Skies »

Symmetry wrote: post #27

I'm mostly gratified by what a "Dog bites man" story this is. Solar prices have been decreasing steadily for a long time so we should expect to see a story like this every few months until the adoption curve flattens out - which hopefully won't be for a while.

Wonder if there is a bit of an Osbourne Effect limiting demand as potential buyers keep waiting to see if the next generation of panels are even better.

Re: Solar Just Hit a Record Low Price in the U.S

#198

Post by CyberDildonics »

reaperducer wrote: post #146
ghouse wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

False equivalence. A similar argument could be made of nuclear power (which needs to run at/near 100% output), or supercritical coal (similar operating constraint to nuclear). Do we need to add batteries to those as well to make an apples-apples comparison? (Incidentally, much of the pumped hydro in the US was built to integrate nuclear power). Unless you're trying to power the grid with a single power plant (like on…

Plus, just because the sun goes down doesn't mean all solar generating stations stop making electricity. I'm not even remotely an expert in this field, but the towers at the solar furnaces I've seen continue to glow well into the night, meaning they're hot enough to still generate steam, and thus electricity, long after it's dark. I don't expect they generate electricity all night, but maybe not as much energy needs…

Not only that, but solar generated in one place can supply electricity to areas where the sun has not hit yet, and likewise after the sun goes down, those same places can draw power from further west.

Re: Solar Just Hit a Record Low Price in the U.S

#199

Post by duxup »

tshannon wrote: post #190
samcheng wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Solar is quite location (and latitude) dependent. Duluth gets about half of the annual Global Horizontal Irradiance that Tuscon does, and that's before accounting for the fact that snow will sometimes cover the panels. In addition, Minnesota has significantly lower electricity prices than the big coastal states (partially due to the great wind resource in the SW corner of the state, partially due to political reasons…

I've always wondered if it makes any sense (if you have the property) to setup a windmill instead of solar panels. I don't think there's much market in smaller / single home windmill installations and so the costs are probably much, much higher.

I wondered the same. There are small windmills I've seen on cabins and such for intermittent use.

Re: Solar Just Hit a Record Low Price in the U.S

#200

Post by ben_w »

manmal wrote: post #159
heisenbergs wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not only that. Solar energy production follows the sun, which incidentally is what humans also follow and when they are typically active and using most energy. Hence, solar producing energy when it is actually needed and in most demand (peak energy). This is even more so the case in hotter places that need AC.

For ACs and cooking lunch, yes. For cooking dinner and artificial lighting, no.

Dinner is relevant. Lights… take a standard lightbulb form factor fill it with batteries and coat the outside with LEDs, and it can last most of the night.
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