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Solar Just Hit a Record Low Price in the U.S

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Re: Solar Just Hit a Record Low Price in the U.S

#91

Post by inputcoffee »

babaganoosh89 wrote: post #81
inputcoffee wrote: post #71

The true price of solar is the price to produce reliable, continuous energy. That requires something to smooth out the signal and store the energy, most probably a battery. The solar + battery price is also going down, though not as fast as the solar only piece. But that's the metric we should be following. When that hits $30 per MWh, it'll be game over.

Also the cost of installation. At least for home solar, installation makes up the majority of the cost.

Yes, and any estimate of solar only costs is composed largely of financing charges which is another way of saying capital costs. These include the installation.

Re: Solar Just Hit a Record Low Price in the U.S

#92

Post by organsnyder »

wtetzner wrote: post #57
overcast wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why does it have to be electric heat? Natural Gas is doing a good job right now. Let's work on supplying electricity, for things that require electricity first. When we've moved away non renewable energy sources for electricity generation, then move onto the heating issues in colder climates.

But even with natural gas, don't you end up needing electricity to move the heat through the house?

Depends on the delivery mechanism. Our boiler (hot-water heat with radiators) has a pump that uses ~30 watts, and before we modernized our system it was entirely gravity-fed—hot water goes up to the living quarters, cold water comes back down to the basement. I haven't checked exactly, but I think our system uses around 100 watts total, and extracts 95% of the possible BTUs from the natural gas it consumes. The old system consumed basically nothing (just a bit to operate the thermostat controls), but was 80% efficient at best.

Not surprisingly, forced air blowers consume more electricity—100-500 watts, according to my quick Googling.

Re: Solar Just Hit a Record Low Price in the U.S

#93

Post by mrfusion »

babaganoosh89 wrote: post #81
inputcoffee wrote: post #71

The true price of solar is the price to produce reliable, continuous energy. That requires something to smooth out the signal and store the energy, most probably a battery. The solar + battery price is also going down, though not as fast as the solar only piece. But that's the metric we should be following. When that hits $30 per MWh, it'll be game over.

Also the cost of installation. At least for home solar, installation makes up the majority of the cost.

I have an idea for a product to solve this if anyone is interested in chatting. I just don’t have the capital or hardware knowledge to get it going.

Re: Solar Just Hit a Record Low Price in the U.S

#94

Post by rtkwe »

rock_hard wrote: post #84
immad wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why can't existing energy infrastructure handle the gaps? Does it take too long to boot up a natural gas plant just for the night? Would still make a huge dent to energy needs and the existing infrastructure already in place.

Without a buffer (like a battery) solar energy fluctuates highly because of clouds and other things that get in the way for split seconds during the day.

That seems like a point where distributed rooftop solar has a pretty good edge over utility solar (ie huge fields of solar cells). Spread over a large enough area all those tiny peaks and fluctuations will even out largely.

Re: Solar Just Hit a Record Low Price in the U.S

#95

Post by legitster »

tombert wrote: post #69

I'm of course a supporter of solar, and I don't want to be "that guy", but is there a strategy for handling solar power at night? In these areas that are mostly solar, how do they store the energy, or do they resort to natural gas or coal or something?

Hydroelectric. I believe there is a project in California looking into a big reservoir they can use to fill with water when they have extra power.

Aside from that, price incentives should come into play. Everyone charges their cars and electronics during the day when power is cheapest. If you want to run your equipment at night you have to pay more.

Re: Solar Just Hit a Record Low Price in the U.S

#96

Post by rsynnott »

inputcoffee wrote: post #71

The true price of solar is the price to produce reliable, continuous energy. That requires something to smooth out the signal and store the energy, most probably a battery. The solar + battery price is also going down, though not as fast as the solar only piece. But that's the metric we should be following. When that hits $30 per MWh, it'll be game over.

I wouldn't bet on batteries, or at least conventional batteries, being the long term solution. There's interesting work being done with air pressure storage, flow batteries (the largest batteries currently under construction are mostly flow batteries in the 500MWh-1GWh range, though the technology is still in its infancy), and big scary vacuum flywheels.

All of these are far less developed than lithium ion cells, but have the potential to do a lot better on cost and longevity grounds.

Re: Solar Just Hit a Record Low Price in the U.S

#97

Post by robto »

nivertech wrote: post #17

Q: Where one can check solar energy prices?

As far as I know, the industry standard is the Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory's annual 'Tracking The Sun' report[0]. I recommend it as a great primary source - the measurements are well explained and accompanied by helpful charts and analysis of the year-to-year changes. LBNL also publishes other useful resources on energy production/consumption, so it's worth browsing around to see what they have if you're interested.

[0]https://emp.lbl.gov/publications/tracking-sun-10-installed-p...

Re: Solar Just Hit a Record Low Price in the U.S

#98

Post by ac29 »

hathawsh wrote: post #64
xahrepap wrote: post #45

Slightly off topic... Interesting thing about solar in Utah (maybe everywhere? Not sure about the specifics): Utah gives every land owner pollution credits. They're allowed to pollute X units worth per year or something like that. Depending on certain criteria you're allotted a certain amount of credits. The problem is, these credits are transferable. So if I, for example, don't pollute, I can sell my credits off to…

I've never heard of this. What is the name of Utah's "pollution credit" program and where can I find out more? Google isn't helping me.

Perhaps its this?

https://deq.utah.gov/air-quality/emission-credits-offset-reg...

Re: Solar Just Hit a Record Low Price in the U.S

#99

Post by raldi »

inputcoffee wrote: post #71

The true price of solar is the price to produce reliable, continuous energy. That requires something to smooth out the signal and store the energy, most probably a battery. The solar + battery price is also going down, though not as fast as the solar only piece. But that's the metric we should be following. When that hits $30 per MWh, it'll be game over.

How do you track it? What is it now?

Re: Solar Just Hit a Record Low Price in the U.S

#100

Post by stusmall »

mrfusion wrote: post #77

What happened to all the solar tariffs folks were stressing about?

It's in the article:

They also show that the efforts of the Trump administration to prop up fossil fuels at the expense of renewables aren’t enough to push solar out to sea. The tariffs that Trump levied earlier this year against cheap solar panels imported from China could eventually dampen installations. Naam said they add roughly 10 percent to the price of utility-scale projects, but “at most, they move the price of solar back by about a year.”

It's still a significant cost added on and slows things down, but you can only do so much damage.

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