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Solar Just Hit a Record Low Price in the U.S

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Re: Solar Just Hit a Record Low Price in the U.S

#41

Post by gm-conspiracy »

sf_rob wrote: post #16
rb808 wrote: post #11

There is an interesting part about solar generating electricity when its sunny - it will help population move to warmer climes. If you live in Ohio heating in winter is a problem, solar isn't going to keep you warm on a cold night (ok batteries can help but they're expensive). If you live in the South West though its perfect as Winter nights dont require much heat and the biggest loads are AC at the times when there…

You could probably invest in a thermal mass hybrid HVAC system e.g. use solar during the day to heat or cool a large thermal mass (thick interior concrete wall/floor to whatever temperature you need it to be at night.

Yes, this is a good idea, just expensive.

There are both passive and active options.

You need to drill pretty deep and have multiple wells, or have alot of land surface area and excavate (not too deep though).

Other option is using water from a well or spring and dumping that water back into another well or stream (with an increase in water temp.).

Re: Solar Just Hit a Record Low Price in the U.S

#42

Post by ryanmercer »

Symmetry wrote: post #27

I'm mostly gratified by what a "Dog bites man" story this is. Solar prices have been decreasing steadily for a long time so we should expect to see a story like this every few months until the adoption curve flattens out - which hopefully won't be for a while.

You'd think but photovlotaics have already been targeted as far as importing into the U.S., counterveiling and anti-dumping duties and what not.

They dodged this recent tariff change that took effect this week as 8541.40.60 tariffs currently aren't included in this tariff war with China but they could see more aggressive action.

Re: Solar Just Hit a Record Low Price in the U.S

#43

Post by scblock »

CompelTechnic wrote: post #5
toomuchtodo wrote: post #2

Relevant bits: > “On their face, they’re less than a third the price of building a new coal or natural gas power plant,” Ramez Naam, an energy expert and lecturer at Singularity University, told Earther in an email. “In fact, building these plants is cheaper than just operating an existing coal or natural gas plant.” > There’s a 30 percent federal investment tax credit for solar projects that helps drive down the cos…

>It will operate at a flat rate of $23.76 per megawatt-hour over the course of a 25-year power purchasing agreement Does anyone have data on typical wholesale power costs?

You can look up Locational Marginal Pricing (LMP) data. Some Independent System Operators publish the information online. It varies pretty widely by region, and by time of day, time of year, condition of the grid, etc.

ERCOT: http://www.ercot.com/content/cdr/contours/rtmLmpHg.html CAISO: http://www.caiso.com/PriceMap/Pages/default.aspx MISO: https://api.misoenergy.org/MISORTWD/lmpcontourmap.html

Re: Solar Just Hit a Record Low Price in the U.S

#44

Post by oconnore »

stcredzero wrote: post #14
rb808 wrote: post #11

There is an interesting part about solar generating electricity when its sunny - it will help population move to warmer climes. If you live in Ohio heating in winter is a problem, solar isn't going to keep you warm on a cold night (ok batteries can help but they're expensive). If you live in the South West though its perfect as Winter nights dont require much heat and the biggest loads are AC at the times when there…

If you live in Ohio that is a problem, solar isn't going to keep you warm on a cold night Houses built to the German Passivhaus standard would do just fine in Ohio. I used to live in Ohio and Western Pennsylvania, so I should know. There was one Minnesota church built with polystyrene panels that had to start running air conditioning in the middle of winter, the insulation was so good. If you live in the South West t…

It's a shame that there isn't the regulatory flexibility to subsidize desalination plants, because desalination plants are sort of like insurance policies in that you usually don't need them that much until a drought hits and then you really wish you had them.

That sort of long term risk averse thinking is exactly where the market economy needs to be supplemented.

Re: Solar Just Hit a Record Low Price in the U.S

#45

Post by xahrepap »

Slightly off topic... Interesting thing about solar in Utah (maybe everywhere? Not sure about the specifics): Utah gives every land owner pollution credits. They're allowed to pollute X units worth per year or something like that. Depending on certain criteria you're allotted a certain amount of credits. The problem is, these credits are transferable. So if I, for example, don't pollute, I can sell my credits off to someone who wants to pollute more than average.

Something (I think is shady) some companies are doing is selling solar for really cheap in dollars, but they subsidize the cost by selling it for credits. Average Joe is going to think he's polluting less, however since he sold off his pollution credits, his solar purchase has authorized someone else to pollute for him. Netting us nothing in the end.

(not an expert, so I may have misunderstandings and be oversimplifying things, but the point should be easy to understand)

Re: Solar Just Hit a Record Low Price in the U.S

#46

Post by adventured »

oconnore wrote: post #44
stcredzero wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you live in Ohio that is a problem, solar isn't going to keep you warm on a cold night Houses built to the German Passivhaus standard would do just fine in Ohio. I used to live in Ohio and Western Pennsylvania, so I should know. There was one Minnesota church built with polystyrene panels that had to start running air conditioning in the middle of winter, the insulation was so good. If you live in the South West t…

It's a shame that there isn't the regulatory flexibility to subsidize desalination plants, because desalination plants are sort of like insurance policies in that you usually don't need them that much until a drought hits and then you really wish you had them. That sort of long term risk averse thinking is exactly where the market economy needs to be supplemented.

The market economy would charge the almond cartel and alfalfa growers a lot more money for their water abuse in California, which would instantly eliminate the water problems for the entire state. Versus allowing $10 billion of agriculture industry to hold a multi trillion dollar economy hostage.

Re: Solar Just Hit a Record Low Price in the U.S

#47

Post by thelastidiot »

xahrepap wrote: post #45

Slightly off topic... Interesting thing about solar in Utah (maybe everywhere? Not sure about the specifics): Utah gives every land owner pollution credits. They're allowed to pollute X units worth per year or something like that. Depending on certain criteria you're allotted a certain amount of credits. The problem is, these credits are transferable. So if I, for example, don't pollute, I can sell my credits off to…

It sounds like a fantastic loophole that allows companies to break regulations. I love capitalism.

Re: Solar Just Hit a Record Low Price in the U.S

#48

Post by rb808 »

overcast wrote: post #34
rb808 wrote: post #11

There is an interesting part about solar generating electricity when its sunny - it will help population move to warmer climes. If you live in Ohio heating in winter is a problem, solar isn't going to keep you warm on a cold night (ok batteries can help but they're expensive). If you live in the South West though its perfect as Winter nights dont require much heat and the biggest loads are AC at the times when there…

Why does it have to be electric heat? Natural Gas is doing a good job right now. Let's work on supplying electricity, for things that require electricity first. When we've moved away non renewable energy sources for electricity generation, then move onto the heating issues in colder climates.

Yes Gas is great, but in 100 years it wont be cheap. I wasn't really talking about the next decade.

Re: Solar Just Hit a Record Low Price in the U.S

#49

Post by adventured »

xahrepap wrote: post #45

Slightly off topic... Interesting thing about solar in Utah (maybe everywhere? Not sure about the specifics): Utah gives every land owner pollution credits. They're allowed to pollute X units worth per year or something like that. Depending on certain criteria you're allotted a certain amount of credits. The problem is, these credits are transferable. So if I, for example, don't pollute, I can sell my credits off to…

I'd suspect that if the actual net is anywhere close to even, then that scheme having the side-effect of further building up the solar industry, is a massive long-term win for renewable energy and the environment.

Re: Solar Just Hit a Record Low Price in the U.S

#50

Post by xahrepap »

adventured wrote: post #49
xahrepap wrote: post #45

Slightly off topic... Interesting thing about solar in Utah (maybe everywhere? Not sure about the specifics): Utah gives every land owner pollution credits. They're allowed to pollute X units worth per year or something like that. Depending on certain criteria you're allotted a certain amount of credits. The problem is, these credits are transferable. So if I, for example, don't pollute, I can sell my credits off to…

I'd suspect that if the actual net is anywhere close to even, then that scheme having the side-effect of further building up the solar industry, is a massive long-term win for renewable energy and the environment.

That's a good point. I didn't really think of that. It still feels a bit off, but that does help return some of the feel-goods back into buying solar :)
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