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A California mall operator is sharing license plate tracking data with ICE

techcrunch.com

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Re: A California mall operator is sharing license plate tracking data with ICE

#131

Post by test6554 »

narrator wrote: post #64

I read articles like this and I think that one's opinion on this is directly correlated with whether one thinks that immigration laws should be enforced. I don't think most people are calling for immigration laws to be eliminated and anyone who manages to make it here should be allowed to stay indefinitely. What I don't get is the whole selective enforcement of laws thing. If someone somehow managed to get across the…

I feel like there are two types of people, those who respect property rights and those who don't.

You might say that one type of person wants everyone to be like docker containers, not interfering with one-another and another type of person wants to be like a monolithic application where anyone's problem becomes everyone's problem, but free resources are to be shared.

Re: A California mall operator is sharing license plate tracking data with ICE

#132

Post by FireBeyond »

iosDrone wrote: post #130

This is the first thing I've read that actually increased my support for the widespread use ALPR technology. Every illegal alien in this country is a criminal, by definition.

Hopefully you've never gotten a speeding ticket, parking or similar. Because most of those are classified at the same misdemeanor level as "entering illegally", which would make you a criminal, too.

Re: A California mall operator is sharing license plate tracking data with ICE

#133

Post by megablast »

Skunkleton wrote: post #13

To me the issue here is that this data is collected in the first place. It seems wrong to me that private corporations are tracking my every move.

I don't see any difference between tracking cars and guns, except cars kill more people every year in the US.

Re: A California mall operator is sharing license plate tracking data with ICE

#134

Post by flukus »

Skunkleton wrote: post #13

To me the issue here is that this data is collected in the first place. It seems wrong to me that private corporations are tracking my every move.

It won't solve the license plate issue, but wearing a burka in public is starting to sound like a sensible response to the modern world just so you don't end up with your face scanned and location logged 38 times on your way to work in the morning.

A niqab might do for now, but I'm guessing height, gate and precise location might provide too much fingerprinting information.

Re: A California mall operator is sharing license plate tracking data with ICE

#135

Post by Skunkleton »

megablast wrote: post #133
Skunkleton wrote: post #13

To me the issue here is that this data is collected in the first place. It seems wrong to me that private corporations are tracking my every move.

I don't see any difference between tracking cars and guns, except cars kill more people every year in the US.

What are you even talking about? They aren't tracking my car to make sure I don't run some one over, they are tracking it so that they can sell more stuff.

Re: A California mall operator is sharing license plate tracking data with ICE

#136

Post by dahdum »

jstarfish wrote: post #76
danhorner wrote: post #66

I'm a little confused about the mall operator's incentive to do this. Are they using ALPR for their own security and voluntarily sharing the reads? Is the provider giving them a discount to do so or paying to place cameras or something?

A former employer of mine opted to install ALPR cameras at the entrances to/from the office park. It would establish a direct feed to the local police as to who was entering the property at any given time. I questioned why this was necessary and received a vague hypothetical about domestic abusers/deranged exes harassing employees/kidnapping suspects entering the property, with no clear indication as to how we'd flag…

It's not meant to stop vehicles in real time, but that data can be used to solve break-ins (identify all new vehicles and narrow down), establish proof of harassment / breaking of a restraining order, etc..

So could cell phone records, but ALPR is simpler and fewer legal concerns. As a business owner, there's little downside, and most of the employees would have been caught on ALPR, toll booths, cell phone tracking, and other tracking a dozen times on their way to work already.

I don't really like that location data is near-public information nowadays, but I don't see it getting any better.

Re: A California mall operator is sharing license plate tracking data with ICE

#137

Post by dahdum »

FireBeyond wrote: post #132
iosDrone wrote: post #130

This is the first thing I've read that actually increased my support for the widespread use ALPR technology. Every illegal alien in this country is a criminal, by definition.

Hopefully you've never gotten a speeding ticket, parking or similar. Because most of those are classified at the same misdemeanor level as "entering illegally", which would make you a criminal, too.

Speeding and parking tickets are usually infractions, and are non-criminal. DUIs, reckless driving, fleeing the scene, and the like are criminal misdemeanors or felonies.

Illegally entering is a criminal misdemanor, so they aren't the same thing.

Re: A California mall operator is sharing license plate tracking data with ICE

#138

Post by zardgiv »

dahdum wrote: post #137
FireBeyond wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hopefully you've never gotten a speeding ticket, parking or similar. Because most of those are classified at the same misdemeanor level as "entering illegally", which would make you a criminal, too.

Speeding and parking tickets are usually infractions, and are non-criminal. DUIs, reckless driving, fleeing the scene, and the like are criminal misdemeanors or felonies. Illegally entering is a criminal misdemanor, so they aren't the same thing.

Unlawful presence, which is all anyone at a mall in California could be charged with, is a civil matter, not a crime.

Unless there's some international border in Sunnyvale I missed, I don't think the ALPRs will catch any illegal entry.

Re: A California mall operator is sharing license plate tracking data with ICE

#139

Post by sixdimensional »

The malls in Southern California also use machine vision to detect your gender, approximate age, sentiment and unique facial structure through unique identifier tracking. If they have you from your license plate, to when you’re in the mall, as well as any information they can glean from your cell phone signal... yikes. Or at least there was an article some time ago how they were testing it.

Re: A California mall operator is sharing license plate tracking data with ICE

#140

Post by blitmap »

I wonder where we're supposed to go from here. After 9/11 I worried about having something as convenient as Google Maps. Now we have more real-time surveillance and going outside I know I will be tracked and collected and bought and sold to private companies and the government. There's a psychological cost to knowing you're watched/exploited every time you go outside. In the past this was limited to what people might have seen you do in the public view. Now there are large distributed systems in place to collect an itinerary of your movements - even if you're not the focus of a search. I was born in California, and I don't feel like these systems keep me safer. It makes me want to participate in society less. Maybe I'm just paranoid. I wonder what this at scale, alongside other tracking systems, will do - and how it changes our behavior. I feel harmed by this.
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