Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

A California mall operator is sharing license plate tracking data with ICE

techcrunch.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

81–90 of 190 posts

Re: A California mall operator is sharing license plate tracking data with ICE

#81

Post by forapurpose »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #30
s73v3r_ wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Better yet, ask them to confirm that they don't track this stuff in the first place.

> ask them to confirm that they don't track this stuff in the first place I could see a reasonable case being made for collecting these data, storing them for a few weeks, and then deleting them, to protect against thieves. The problem here is that for the government to collect these data, they would need to follow certain processes. A private actor who isn't following those processes is placing those data with the g…

> I could see a reasonable case being made for collecting these data, storing them for a few weeks, and then deleting them, to protect against thieves.

I disagree. Everyone shouldn't have to sacrifice everything associated with their license plate info, everywhere they go, because of a few thieves. It's not a reasonable balance; my privacy is worth a lot to me.

Re: A California mall operator is sharing license plate tracking data with ICE

#82

Post by Spooky23 »

nerdponx wrote: post #78

The fact that private malls are even tracking license plates to begin with is disturbing. Obvious in hindsight, but disturbing.

I think that most people would be surprised at the scale of LPR deployments by both private ( http://drnrecovery.com/2016-trends-lpr-affiliates/ ) and public sector ( https://www.aclu.org/blog/national-security/dea-recording-am... ) actors.

Re: A California mall operator is sharing license plate tracking data with ICE

#84

Post by forapurpose »

ryanmercer wrote: post #75
bcassedy wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So hole up in a cave because someone might be tracking you every time you leave the house? It's perfectly reasonable to require companies to tell us what data they're collecting and how it will be used.

>So hole up in a cave because someone might be tracking you every time you leave the house? Welcome to the late 20th century. Cat's out of the bag.

> Cat's out of the bag.

I don't see a reason to believe this. It would be easy to restrict this behavior.

Re: A California mall operator is sharing license plate tracking data with ICE

#85

Post by Spooky23 »

justboxing wrote: post #3

> A hallmark of Vigilant’s solution, the ability for agencies to share real-time data nationwide amongst over 1,000 agencies and tap into our exclusive commercial LPR database of over 5 billion vehicle detections, sets our platform apart. 5 Billion vehicle detections seems like an awfully high (and possibly made up) number. Even if you allow for the same vehicle to be detected 5 or 10 times, the total number of regis…

You could get to that just via chokepoints.

Examples: The RFK/Triboro bridge in NYC gets 60M crossings annually. I95 at the North/Carolina border gets 14M cars a year. State DOTs publish this information for all interstate and many other highways, so it’s easy to piece see where the flows are.

Additionally, DMVs sell all sorts of information, and auto repair and dealerships sell whatever DMV does not. It’s definitely pretty easy to gather and correlate data like this.

I’d assume that many players, from billboard companies to the feds to fast food operators are collecting this data. It is too cheap to collect and too valuable to many parties for that to not be happening.

Re: A California mall operator is sharing license plate tracking data with ICE

#86

Post by tomohawk »

nerdponx wrote: post #78

The fact that private malls are even tracking license plates to begin with is disturbing. Obvious in hindsight, but disturbing.

Many malls are high crime areas. Car theft is often much higher at malls, for example. The owners of these malls have a responsibility to provide a safe environment.

There have been a few malls in our area that closed after gang related activity and violence in their vicinity became known. If you are a mall owner and have this happen, would you not be remiss to take measures to try to know who is visiting your property and using it as a place to conduct illegal activities?

If a car shows up that is registered to someone on a warrant for a violent crime, should the mall owner do nothing? Not their business?

What about a car registered to someone who lost their license due to DUI? What if that person frequents the mall and kills someone with their car?

Re: A California mall operator is sharing license plate tracking data with ICE

#87

Post by Spooky23 »

danhorner wrote: post #66

I'm a little confused about the mall operator's incentive to do this. Are they using ALPR for their own security and voluntarily sharing the reads? Is the provider giving them a discount to do so or paying to place cameras or something?

The government will just ask. Security types crave the opportunity to do a favor for the cops, and voluntary cooperation is not a legal issue.

I served on a jury where the police were able to gather footage covering like 14/24 hours of the defendants time from a variety of camera feeds (up to 40 I think).

After torturing us with introducing dozens of these videos to build the timeline, the case was fucked up (and defendant found not guilty) because they couldn’t explain NTP in the context of a camera used as the primary time reference point.

Re: A California mall operator is sharing license plate tracking data with ICE

#88

Post by natecavanaugh »

tomohawk wrote: post #86
nerdponx wrote: post #78

The fact that private malls are even tracking license plates to begin with is disturbing. Obvious in hindsight, but disturbing.

Many malls are high crime areas. Car theft is often much higher at malls, for example. The owners of these malls have a responsibility to provide a safe environment. There have been a few malls in our area that closed after gang related activity and violence in their vicinity became known. If you are a mall owner and have this happen, would you not be remiss to take measures to try to know who is visiting your proper…

This is a good point that resonated with me.

There is a Costco shopping center near me that has had a few cases of straight up wheel theft during the height of their shopping times that were not solved until they tracked plates, but alas, this seems like a case of the blade cutting both ways.

I want to say "Screw ICE", but this does seem like a valid case of tracking who is frequenting their lots.

Re: A California mall operator is sharing license plate tracking data with ICE

#90

Post by mikeash »

maxerickson wrote: post #77
mikeash wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let’s say we’re neighbors. I keep a close watch on your house, and every time you come and go I phone the local police and tell them, “OceanKing just got home” or whatever. Would you be ok with that?

I want legal reforms that enhance privacy, but your scenario happens all the time, private surveillance is willingly handed over to police after some incident. It doesn't have the goofball repeatedly calling the police aspect, but that's the less interesting part to me.

I agree, it does happen all the time.

My question remains: if it were happening to you, would you be ok with it?

Post reply on HN