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Ex-Apple Employee Stole Secrets for Chinese Firm, U.S. Says

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Re: Ex-Apple Employee Stole Secrets for Chinese Firm, U.S. Says

#11

Post by sjroot »

Disclaimer: I am speaking from personal experiences and know that, despite these experiences, there are tons of Chinese engineers who work their ass off and maintain great professional integrity.

That said...my experience with Chinese graduate students has been incredibly disappointing. While they made up the majority of our graduate computer science program, most had no respect for academic conduct guidelines. I experienced this both as a student and a teacher, even having to meet with two Chinese students during my office hours to explain that they couldn’t turn in assignments they copied from others. They had explicitly asked me if this was okay, so I was happy to inform them.

I would venture to say that there is a cultural disconnect with the Chinese when it comes to the idea of intellectual property. I obviously cannot speak from experience, but it seems the political atmosphere in China probably contributes to this a lot.

I would love to learn more about how Chinese engineers (in the USA and abroad) feel about this.

Last note: has anyone looked at the website or Twitter account of the company this person is moving to? Their website is completely devoid of any actual information, and their Twitter account is a mix of horrible car mock-ups and announcements about their company raising millions in venture capital. ???

Re: Ex-Apple Employee Stole Secrets for Chinese Firm, U.S. Says

#12

Post by wavefunction »

hkmurakami wrote: post #4

I’m sad at myself for feeling “well yeah not unexpected” after having worked at DENSO HQ (Toyota group supplier) where a Chinese natiuonal engineer stole 30,000 design documents in the early 2000s (it made national headlines when it happened). Because it’s only 1/1000000 people that do this that will cause prejudice and disdain for all the good actors.

>good actors >People doing their job and not committing international espionage

Those are just people, let's not lower our standards

Re: Ex-Apple Employee Stole Secrets for Chinese Firm, U.S. Says

#13

Post by product50 »

Can China not innovate at all? Why are they so keen on stealing IP? Their other homegrown products such as WeChat and Xiaomi seem pretty competitive and very catered to the local market. This is just giving such a bad name to the country and supporting Trump's broad claims that China thrives on IP theft.

Re: Ex-Apple Employee Stole Secrets for Chinese Firm, U.S. Says

#14

Post by Shank »

sjroot wrote: post #11

Disclaimer: I am speaking from personal experiences and know that, despite these experiences, there are tons of Chinese engineers who work their ass off and maintain great professional integrity. That said...my experience with Chinese graduate students has been incredibly disappointing. While they made up the majority of our graduate computer science program, most had no respect for academic conduct guidelines. I exp…

> I would venture to say that there is a cultural disconnect with the Chinese when it comes to the idea of intellectual property.

I would much more strongly link it to the fact that academic success and workplace success leads to high economic again and societal standing. This is fostered at an early age and progresses all throughout life. The gaokao [0] is a striking example of just how much pressure goes into academics in particular:

> Suicides are a regular feature of every exam season; a 2014 study claimed that exam stress was a contributing factor in 93% of cases in which school students took their own lives. Last year, a middle school in Hebei province fenced off its upper-floor dormitory balconies with grates, after two students jumped to their deaths in the months leading up to the gaokao.

Given that many classes don't have an impact on the end career (or at least, many feel this way), it's unsurprising that students would rather cheat on the "less important" work that they just need to pass, versus what they actually find valuable.

I don't think it's correlated to IP. Just societal expectations and norms.

[0]: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/oct/12/gaokao-china-t...

Re: Ex-Apple Employee Stole Secrets for Chinese Firm, U.S. Says

#15

Post by melling »

sjroot wrote: post #11

Disclaimer: I am speaking from personal experiences and know that, despite these experiences, there are tons of Chinese engineers who work their ass off and maintain great professional integrity. That said...my experience with Chinese graduate students has been incredibly disappointing. While they made up the majority of our graduate computer science program, most had no respect for academic conduct guidelines. I exp…

I was in graduate school about 25 years ago and several Chinese students got caught cheating on the compiler project.

I always thought this was a bit strange because I’m sure most software developers could transform a piece of source code so that it would not appear to be a copy.

Re: Ex-Apple Employee Stole Secrets for Chinese Firm, U.S. Says

#16

Post by pvg »

sjroot wrote: post #11

Disclaimer: I am speaking from personal experiences and know that, despite these experiences, there are tons of Chinese engineers who work their ass off and maintain great professional integrity. That said...my experience with Chinese graduate students has been incredibly disappointing. While they made up the majority of our graduate computer science program, most had no respect for academic conduct guidelines. I exp…

Why intellectual property? Intellectual property is not the basis of academic integrity rules.

Re: Ex-Apple Employee Stole Secrets for Chinese Firm, U.S. Says

#17

Post by sjroot »

Shank wrote: post #14
sjroot wrote: post #11

Disclaimer: I am speaking from personal experiences and know that, despite these experiences, there are tons of Chinese engineers who work their ass off and maintain great professional integrity. That said...my experience with Chinese graduate students has been incredibly disappointing. While they made up the majority of our graduate computer science program, most had no respect for academic conduct guidelines. I exp…

> I would venture to say that there is a cultural disconnect with the Chinese when it comes to the idea of intellectual property. I would much more strongly link it to the fact that academic success and workplace success leads to high economic again and societal standing. This is fostered at an early age and progresses all throughout life. The gaokao [0] is a striking example of just how much pressure goes into acade…

I agree that’s a huge part of it that I left out. I guess I threw that in the bin of “cultural differences.”

Re: Ex-Apple Employee Stole Secrets for Chinese Firm, U.S. Says

#18

Post by lawnchair_larry »

sjroot wrote: post #11

Disclaimer: I am speaking from personal experiences and know that, despite these experiences, there are tons of Chinese engineers who work their ass off and maintain great professional integrity. That said...my experience with Chinese graduate students has been incredibly disappointing. While they made up the majority of our graduate computer science program, most had no respect for academic conduct guidelines. I exp…

It’s funny how afraid people are about tiptoeing around this issue. Cheating among chinese students is widespread and blatant, and they do not even pretend to care. They are completely shameless about it. Everyone with Chinese students knows it, but it’s politically incorrect to call it out. Which they are also aware of, and take advantage of.

Re: Ex-Apple Employee Stole Secrets for Chinese Firm, U.S. Says

#19

Post by thatfrenchguy »

blahblahblogger wrote: post #6
hkmurakami wrote: post #4

I’m sad at myself for feeling “well yeah not unexpected” after having worked at DENSO HQ (Toyota group supplier) where a Chinese natiuonal engineer stole 30,000 design documents in the early 2000s (it made national headlines when it happened). Because it’s only 1/1000000 people that do this that will cause prejudice and disdain for all the good actors.

> I’m sad at myself for feeling “well yeah not unexpected” > Because it’s only 1/1000000 people that do this that will cause prejudice and disdain for all the good actors. Damn I came in here to say the same thing and feel sad at myself now too. So not to be racial but from an American standpoint I liken it to hiring an American who happens to be Chinese versus an engineer from China. For the first, they are American…

That's true for any nationality though. And Snowden was American and technically fled to Russia ?

Re: Ex-Apple Employee Stole Secrets for Chinese Firm, U.S. Says

#20

Post by sjroot »

pvg wrote: post #16
sjroot wrote: post #11

Disclaimer: I am speaking from personal experiences and know that, despite these experiences, there are tons of Chinese engineers who work their ass off and maintain great professional integrity. That said...my experience with Chinese graduate students has been incredibly disappointing. While they made up the majority of our graduate computer science program, most had no respect for academic conduct guidelines. I exp…

Why intellectual property? Intellectual property is not the basis of academic integrity rules.

The stealing of ideas can be applied to legal intellectual property or academic assignments.
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