A California mall operator is sharing license plate tracking data with ICE • Hacker News Board

Re: A California mall operator is sharing license plate tracking data with ICE

#21

Post by s73v3r_ » Tue, Jul 10, 2018, 11:36 PM UTC

OceanKing wrote: post #16

This article takes a distinctly negative tone towards this practice. What’s the problem here? License plate data is public information, it’s the same as if a person standing on the street saw your plate and told someone else. There should not be any expectation of privacy in regard to one’s license plate or the location of its sighting.

Just because there shouldn't be an expectation of privacy doesn't mean we have to be happy when it's revealed that a private company is tracking this stuff en masse.

Re: A California mall operator is sharing license plate tracking data with ICE

#22

Post by CzechTech » Tue, Jul 10, 2018, 11:37 PM UTC

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #2

“California malls” is too forgiving a headline. It’s one company, Irvine Company, a group with locations in the Bay Area [1]. They have phone numbers on their websites [2]. Reaching out to their retailers, particularly those with locations in Mexico, couldn’t hurt either. It might not be a bad idea to also compile a list of their retailers’ investor relations and Twitter accounts and tweet this article to them (here'…

[flagged]

Re: A California mall operator is sharing license plate tracking data with ICE

#23

Post by s73v3r_ » Tue, Jul 10, 2018, 11:37 PM UTC

ipsin wrote: post #20

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #2

“California malls” is too forgiving a headline. It’s one company, Irvine Company, a group with locations in the Bay Area [1]. They have phone numbers on their websites [2]. Reaching out to their retailers, particularly those with locations in Mexico, couldn’t hurt either. It might not be a bad idea to also compile a list of their retailers’ investor relations and Twitter accounts and tweet this article to them (here'…

Given this news, I'm going to contact some other large mall chains (e.g. Westfield), in the hopes that they'll confirm that they don't give out license plate data to third parties. I'll be interested to see how they respond.

Better yet, ask them to confirm that they don't track this stuff in the first place.

Re: A California mall operator is sharing license plate tracking data with ICE

#24

Post by JumpCrisscross » Tue, Jul 10, 2018, 11:37 PM UTC

OceanKing wrote: post #16

This article takes a distinctly negative tone towards this practice. What’s the problem here? License plate data is public information, it’s the same as if a person standing on the street saw your plate and told someone else. There should not be any expectation of privacy in regard to one’s license plate or the location of its sighting.

> There should not be any expectation of privacy in regard to one’s license plate or the location of its sighting

The Supreme Court has continuously recognized the difference between manual and sustained, remote and automated tracking, even in public spaces [1]. The "seismic shifts in digital technology" we are presently undergoing require vigilance to be maintained in respect of the Bill of Rights.

[1] http://www.scotusblog.com/2018/06/opinion-analysis-court-hol...

Re: A California mall operator is sharing license plate tracking data with ICE

#25

Post by mikeash » Tue, Jul 10, 2018, 11:38 PM UTC

matte_black wrote: post #18

OceanKing wrote: post #16

This article takes a distinctly negative tone towards this practice. What’s the problem here? License plate data is public information, it’s the same as if a person standing on the street saw your plate and told someone else. There should not be any expectation of privacy in regard to one’s license plate or the location of its sighting.

The trigger here is ICE. For many people in this country, anything ICE does is bad now.

The trigger is private companies handing over people’s info to law enforcement en masse without a warrant. s/ICE/FBI/ and people would still be upset. Maybe a bit less just because the FBI occasionally goes after actually dangerous people.

Re: A California mall operator is sharing license plate tracking data with ICE

#26

Post by JumpCrisscross » Tue, Jul 10, 2018, 11:39 PM UTC

CzechTech wrote: post #22

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #2

“California malls” is too forgiving a headline. It’s one company, Irvine Company, a group with locations in the Bay Area [1]. They have phone numbers on their websites [2]. Reaching out to their retailers, particularly those with locations in Mexico, couldn’t hurt either. It might not be a bad idea to also compile a list of their retailers’ investor relations and Twitter accounts and tweet this article to them (here'…

[flagged]

> abolishing your immigration agency

Nobody in this thread has proposed abolishing ICE. It is a non-mainstream political movement entirely unrelated to this thread.

Re: A California mall operator is sharing license plate tracking data with ICE

#27

Post by CzechTech » Tue, Jul 10, 2018, 11:39 PM UTC

s73v3r_ wrote: post #19

matte_black wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The trigger here is ICE. For many people in this country, anything ICE does is bad now.

Well, when you rip kids from parents seeking asylum, and then can't even get them back to their parents in a timely manner, yeah, people get upset.

Maybe don't try to cross the border illegaly then? Seems like a valid deterrent to me.

Re: A California mall operator is sharing license plate tracking data with ICE

#28

Post by ggg9990 » Tue, Jul 10, 2018, 11:40 PM UTC

justboxing wrote: post #3

> A hallmark of Vigilant’s solution, the ability for agencies to share real-time data nationwide amongst over 1,000 agencies and tap into our exclusive commercial LPR database of over 5 billion vehicle detections, sets our platform apart. 5 Billion vehicle detections seems like an awfully high (and possibly made up) number. Even if you allow for the same vehicle to be detected 5 or 10 times, the total number of regis…

If they have ten cameras in a mall and catch a car ten times as it circles, they probably count it 10 times.

Re: A California mall operator is sharing license plate tracking data with ICE

#29

Post by gramstrong » Tue, Jul 10, 2018, 11:41 PM UTC

OceanKing wrote: post #16

This article takes a distinctly negative tone towards this practice. What’s the problem here? License plate data is public information, it’s the same as if a person standing on the street saw your plate and told someone else. There should not be any expectation of privacy in regard to one’s license plate or the location of its sighting.

It's government surveillance. The mall can collect and record whatever data they want on their property, who cares. We can compel our government to not accept and blindly process this data en masse. It's the same as taking bulk data from Facebook, or Google, and looking for the .0001% that points to a criminal. Many, myself included, believe that this is wrong.

Re: A California mall operator is sharing license plate tracking data with ICE

#30

Post by JumpCrisscross » Tue, Jul 10, 2018, 11:41 PM UTC

s73v3r_ wrote: post #23

ipsin wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Given this news, I'm going to contact some other large mall chains (e.g. Westfield), in the hopes that they'll confirm that they don't give out license plate data to third parties. I'll be interested to see how they respond.

Better yet, ask them to confirm that they don't track this stuff in the first place.

> ask them to confirm that they don't track this stuff in the first place

I could see a reasonable case being made for collecting these data, storing them for a few weeks, and then deleting them, to protect against thieves.

The problem here is that for the government to collect these data, they would need to follow certain processes. A private actor who isn't following those processes is placing those data with the government, thereby circumventing a critical check on police power.