Goodbye Microservices: From 100s of problem children to 1 superstar • Hacker News Board

Re: Goodbye Microservices: From 100s of problem children to 1 superstar

#241

Post by jcelerier » Tue, Jul 10, 2018, 7:34 PM UTC

boramalper wrote: post #101

lmm wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If Linux tried to be an entire computing system all in one code base, (sed, vim, grep, top, etc., etc.) what do you think that would look like code base/maintainability wise? You mean like BSD?

Same with BSD; the userspace programs are not part of the kernel, and developed separately by the same entity. Busybox is a slightly better example (even though it’s also a userspace program).

> Same with BSD; the userspace programs are not part of the kernel, and developed separately by the same entity.

they're part of the same repo and built at the same time than the kernel. Run a big "make universe" here : https://github.com/freebsd/freebsd and see for yourself. That they are different binaries does not matter a lot, it's just a question of user interface. See for instance busybox where all the userspace is in a single binary.

Re: Goodbye Microservices: From 100s of problem children to 1 superstar

#242

Post by rstefanic » Tue, Jul 10, 2018, 7:36 PM UTC

systemizer wrote: post #207

StavrosK wrote: post #164

Let me write a meta technology hype roadmap, so we can place these sorts of articles: * Old technology is deemed by people too troublesome or restrictive. * They come up with a new technology that has great long-term disadvantages, but is either easy to get started with short-term, or plays to people's ego about long-term prospects. * Everyone adopts this new technology and raves about how great it is now that they h…

yup. basically Hegel's dialectic: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dialectic#Hegelian_dialectic Thesis --> Antithesis --> Synthesis

How is this an example of the Hegelian Dialectic?

Re: Goodbye Microservices: From 100s of problem children to 1 superstar

#243

Post by jl6 » Tue, Jul 10, 2018, 7:36 PM UTC

StavrosK wrote: post #164

Let me write a meta technology hype roadmap, so we can place these sorts of articles: * Old technology is deemed by people too troublesome or restrictive. * They come up with a new technology that has great long-term disadvantages, but is either easy to get started with short-term, or plays to people's ego about long-term prospects. * Everyone adopts this new technology and raves about how great it is now that they h…

What examples are you thinking of with “Everyone slowly goes back to the old technology?”

Re: Goodbye Microservices: From 100s of problem children to 1 superstar

#244

Post by craigc » Tue, Jul 10, 2018, 7:37 PM UTC

StavrosK wrote: post #164

Let me write a meta technology hype roadmap, so we can place these sorts of articles: * Old technology is deemed by people too troublesome or restrictive. * They come up with a new technology that has great long-term disadvantages, but is either easy to get started with short-term, or plays to people's ego about long-term prospects. * Everyone adopts this new technology and raves about how great it is now that they h…

Yup. Everyone wants to use the latest and greatest, but there is a reason that certain things like SQL have stood the test of time.

I think the same could be said of the design world. There was a time not too long ago when designs actually felt polished and had real shapes, shadows, gradients. When you clicked on a button you actually knew you were clicking on a button. Then iOS 7 came along and everything became white and flat and buttons were replaced with text with no borders. I think we are slowly moving back to where we were ten years ago.

PS How long until people start ditching React for jQuery?

Re: Goodbye Microservices: From 100s of problem children to 1 superstar

#245

Post by chillingeffect » Tue, Jul 10, 2018, 7:37 PM UTC

benologist wrote: post #196

johnchristopher wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, should we stick to PHP for web stuff or is JS here to stay ?

Maybe we could commit to a longer duration with every major change, develop expertise and contribute to improving that solution.

the model in GP is useful, but it doesn't account for the unequal distribution of information. e.g. some people are perceiving the cycle at a different phase and can be convinced to work "harder, not smart" for an interval to shift their position within the cycle.

E.g. "Let's get really good at microservices so we don't need a monolith." IOW there's no consensus about when to dig in and go deeper. And even if there was, some people would leverage that information and try to pull ahead of the others digging in.

Re: Goodbye Microservices: From 100s of problem children to 1 superstar

#246

Post by grosjona » Tue, Jul 10, 2018, 7:38 PM UTC

orcasauce wrote: post #162

grosjona wrote: post #66

It's refreshing to read an article which challenges common wisdom. I've endured a lot of suffering at the hands of the microservices fan club. It's good to see reason finally prevail over rhetoric. It would have been nice if people had written articles like this 2 years ago but unfortunately, people with such good reasoning abilities would probably not have been able to find work back then. Software development rheto…

> So many times during technical discussions, I had to keep my mouth shut in the name of self-preservation. This sounds like an issue with being able to articulate why something is or isn't going to net the expected benefits or being able to foresee unexpected risks. Keeping silent is better than throwing out silly hyperbole risks, but not bring up real risks because "they don't want to hear it" is completely bogus.…

>> This sounds like an issue with being able to articulate why something is...

The issue is not articulation of ideas; the issue is that when all the books, all the articles and all people believe that something is true, there is no amount of articulation which will be able to convince them otherwise.

You have to wait for the hype to go away before even considering bringing up the argument.

Re: Goodbye Microservices: From 100s of problem children to 1 superstar

#247

Post by lagadu » Tue, Jul 10, 2018, 7:39 PM UTC

Interesting read, my biggest complaint is: confusing unit testing with integration and system testing. On every build you only run unit testing, you don't rely on any external dependencies. If your test suite relies on querying external servers, you're not testing your software, you're testing your server, your internet connection, your credentials, their internet connection and their servers. That's insane to run on every build! That kind of system testing should only happen whenever you're preparing to deploy a release which isn't something that happens everyday because of how hard it is to properly do system testing.

edit: also it seems they're missing a solid release cycle and manager. For every release before going to production there's a TON of testing that needs to be conducted, they're mentioned over 40 improvements this year, that's two releases a week. It's not possible that you're properly testing each of those releases. Had they done a single, well tested release with multiple fixes every 1-2 months, the burden would be significantly reduced.

Re: Goodbye Microservices: From 100s of problem children to 1 superstar

#248

Post by EdSharkey » Tue, Jul 10, 2018, 7:39 PM UTC

copperx wrote: post #187

StavrosK wrote: post #164

Let me write a meta technology hype roadmap, so we can place these sorts of articles: * Old technology is deemed by people too troublesome or restrictive. * They come up with a new technology that has great long-term disadvantages, but is either easy to get started with short-term, or plays to people's ego about long-term prospects. * Everyone adopts this new technology and raves about how great it is now that they h…

I can't find the right place for Ruby on Rails here. It doesn't fit.

Didn't Rails have all kinds of scaling issues for non-trivial apps and loads?

Re: Goodbye Microservices: From 100s of problem children to 1 superstar

#249

Post by ascendantlogic » Tue, Jul 10, 2018, 7:40 PM UTC

StavrosK wrote: post #164

Let me write a meta technology hype roadmap, so we can place these sorts of articles: * Old technology is deemed by people too troublesome or restrictive. * They come up with a new technology that has great long-term disadvantages, but is either easy to get started with short-term, or plays to people's ego about long-term prospects. * Everyone adopts this new technology and raves about how great it is now that they h…

Which is why I feel like after 20 years in the industry a good portion of people start consultancies realizing there's good money to be made on this hype cycle churn.

Re: Goodbye Microservices: From 100s of problem children to 1 superstar

#250

Post by irrational » Tue, Jul 10, 2018, 7:41 PM UTC

jl6 wrote: post #243

StavrosK wrote: post #164

Let me write a meta technology hype roadmap, so we can place these sorts of articles: * Old technology is deemed by people too troublesome or restrictive. * They come up with a new technology that has great long-term disadvantages, but is either easy to get started with short-term, or plays to people's ego about long-term prospects. * Everyone adopts this new technology and raves about how great it is now that they h…

What examples are you thinking of with “Everyone slowly goes back to the old technology?”

Not OP, but recently a group at my company abandoned MongoDB and went back to a relational database after going through the exact scenario outlined by the OP (actually, the OP's comment so closely aligned with what happened that I actually wonder if he/she is actually a developer with that team at my company ;-)