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Goodbye Microservices: From 100s of problem children to 1 superstar

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Re: Goodbye Microservices: From 100s of problem children to 1 superstar

#201

Post by stefano »

nickthemagicman wrote: post #127
hinkley wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People look at microservices as a solution to the Big Ball of Mud, and then confuse "a solution" with "the solution". You really do have to modularize. In some languages, you can even use separate compilation units for separate modules to enforce the separation. You can do all of that but get simultaneous deployment, which cuts out whole classes of integration nightmares.

It seems like a Big Ball of mud is much more difficult to deal with than a bunch of small balls of mud just in general?

You can step-through your big ball of mud in a debugger, but you can't do the same with your small balls of mud. Not easily at least. That alone makes a huge difference.

Re: Goodbye Microservices: From 100s of problem children to 1 superstar

#202

Post by dpeck »

Microservice based architecture will continue to be used quite a bit as many weaker engineering leads have latched onto it as a way to solve interpersonal problems on their team and letting everyone have their own little fiefdoms. It creates a terrible scenario and a very dysfunctional team, but the hype cycle and a few high scale orgs mentioning it means its part of the "mainstream" now and something that ill-informed leads will be pushing for the next decade, whether it makes sense for the specific context (it doesn't) or not.

Re: Goodbye Microservices: From 100s of problem children to 1 superstar

#203

Post by digi_owl »

StavrosK wrote: post #164

Let me write a meta technology hype roadmap, so we can place these sorts of articles: * Old technology is deemed by people too troublesome or restrictive. * They come up with a new technology that has great long-term disadvantages, but is either easy to get started with short-term, or plays to people's ego about long-term prospects. * Everyone adopts this new technology and raves about how great it is now that they h…

Alternatively:

Are stuck using the new tech, because implementing it burned bridges with the old tech.

Re: Goodbye Microservices: From 100s of problem children to 1 superstar

#205

Post by kllrnohj »

entropie wrote: post #184
johnchristopher wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, should we stick to PHP for web stuff or is JS here to stay ?

I remember a time where javascript was somehow called "old" and obsolete and pretty anyone hated it.

JavaScript prior to ES6 was "old" and obsolete and hated. Building JS objects pre-classes is pretty terrible (to say nothing of the .bind(this) that is spammed everywhere without the => operator)

JS has improved massively over the last few years, it's very nearly an entirely different language than what it used to be.

There's a reason everyone was desperate to avoid writing JS not all that long ago be it the form of coffeescript, silverlight, flash, or GWT. ES5 JS sucks. Like... a lot.

Re: Goodbye Microservices: From 100s of problem children to 1 superstar

#206

Post by [deleted] »

johnchristopher wrote: post #178
StavrosK wrote: post #164

Let me write a meta technology hype roadmap, so we can place these sorts of articles: * Old technology is deemed by people too troublesome or restrictive. * They come up with a new technology that has great long-term disadvantages, but is either easy to get started with short-term, or plays to people's ego about long-term prospects. * Everyone adopts this new technology and raves about how great it is now that they h…

So, should we stick to PHP for web stuff or is JS here to stay ?

[deleted]

Re: Goodbye Microservices: From 100s of problem children to 1 superstar

#207

Post by systemizer »

StavrosK wrote: post #164

Let me write a meta technology hype roadmap, so we can place these sorts of articles: * Old technology is deemed by people too troublesome or restrictive. * They come up with a new technology that has great long-term disadvantages, but is either easy to get started with short-term, or plays to people's ego about long-term prospects. * Everyone adopts this new technology and raves about how great it is now that they h…

yup. basically Hegel's dialectic: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dialectic#Hegelian_dialectic

Thesis --> Antithesis --> Synthesis

Re: Goodbye Microservices: From 100s of problem children to 1 superstar

#208

Post by stcredzero »

ljm wrote: post #157
acroback wrote: post #123

This is a classic case of not understanding micro services and trying to fit a problem around a tool. At work, we have close to ~50 services(no one calls them microservices), but they do not suffer from this brittleness. We segregate our services based on languages. So, all C services go under coco/ , all Java services go under jumanji/ , all go services go under goat/ , all JS services go under js/. This means, ever…

I'd wager that microservices, a lot of the time, are basically used as a management structure rather than for their benefits as pure tech, so less mature teams can silo themselves off and avoid communication (e.g. "I can work just on my backend image processing bit without dealing with the React guys now", "now the CTO won't be on my back so much," or whatever). The irony being that anything approaching SOA (or micro…

I'd wager that microservices, a lot of the time, are basically used as a management structure rather than for their benefits as pure tech

A lot of software is used to control or impose someone's will on others organizationally.

Re: Goodbye Microservices: From 100s of problem children to 1 superstar

#209

Post by digi_owl »

paxys wrote: post #155
blablabla123 wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But there is a big difference. These small targeted programs are invoked in user land, usually by the user. Microservices get invoked directly by the user when debugging is going on. Otherwise they are expected to automagically talk to each other and depending on the abstraction even discovery each other automatically. Also I can pipe these tools together from the same terminal session, like tail -f foo | grep someth…

Look at the package dependency tree of an average linux program. They are absolutely examples of "microservices" talking to each other.

And they can be a right mess to wrangle because upstream gets into some artistic frenzy, and shouts down anyone that worries about the ensuing breakages as luddites and haters.

Re: Goodbye Microservices: From 100s of problem children to 1 superstar

#210

Post by 0x445442 »

resource0x wrote: post #198
StavrosK wrote: post #164

Let me write a meta technology hype roadmap, so we can place these sorts of articles: * Old technology is deemed by people too troublesome or restrictive. * They come up with a new technology that has great long-term disadvantages, but is either easy to get started with short-term, or plays to people's ego about long-term prospects. * Everyone adopts this new technology and raves about how great it is now that they h…

> Old technology is deemed by people too troublesome or restrictive. "deemed" is the keyword here. Old tech is "deemed" bad, new one is "deemed" good. Without any numbers attached, just by way of hand-waving and propaganda. And it's all "deemed" Computer Science :)

Computer Science... Now there's an oxymoron. At most institutions the subject matter is not really about computers nor is it science, at least not in the physics or chemistry sense.
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