How Silicon Valley Fuels an Informal Caste System • Hacker News Board

Re: How Silicon Valley Fuels an Informal Caste System

#21

Post by zck » Tue, Jul 10, 2018, 3:27 PM UTC

prepend wrote: post #3

This is an odd use of of the term caste. Or even class. Both of these imply low or no mobility within social hierarchies. But I don’t think this is the case. “An Outer Party member could reach the Inner Party by chancing into an early job at a lottery-ticket company (such as Facebook or Google) or by becoming a successful entrepreneur. But that’s rare; most of the Outer Party prefers working for the Inner Party, grad…

> “An Outer Party member could reach the Inner Party by chancing into an early job at a lottery-ticket company (such as Facebook or Google) or by becoming a successful entrepreneur. But that’s rare; most of the Outer Party prefers working for the Inner Party, gradually accumulating equity through stock grants and appreciating real estate.” -If you look at the bios of VC “inner party” people, very few were born VC. Many became VC based on their work experience. The quote calls this a “lottery-ticket” experience implying that there’s no free will involved with the shift between statuses.

What the author is saying is "most people in the Outer Party will not join the Inner Party", not "most people in the Inner Party started in the Inner Party". Similarly, you could say it's rare for a US citizen to become President, even though all Presidents were US citizens.

Re: How Silicon Valley Fuels an Informal Caste System

#22

Post by claudiawerner » Tue, Jul 10, 2018, 3:37 PM UTC

tdevito wrote: post #16

I used to be an Instacart Shopper and I'm currently taking a web development bootcamp in Manhattan and now I'm on track to make more money than my parents ever did, which is a win in my book. I will do everything I can to make it the next step to the "Inner Party", but what if I don't? Does that mean I "lost at life" if I only end up Upper Middle Class? This author is trying to push a neo-marxist victim ideology onto…

>This author is trying to push a neo-marxist victim ideology

I'm curious as to which neo-Marxists you're referring to; I'm familiar with the Frankfurt School and Zizek, though I'm not aware of anyone (either Marx or "neo-Marxists" in academia) who propose a "victim ideology". "Neo-Marxist" and "postmodernist" are frequently used as boogeymen, however.

Re: How Silicon Valley Fuels an Informal Caste System

#23

Post by claudiawerner » Tue, Jul 10, 2018, 3:43 PM UTC

thedevilslawyer wrote: post #4

"Socialism never took root in America because the poor see themselves not as an exploited proletariat but as temporarily embarrassed millionaires." - John Steinbeck Are you temporarily embarrassed? You may not realise it, but you could be a temporarily embarrassed millionaire. Do you plan to someday in the future have more money? Are you concerned that your taxes are too high, because someday you might pay too much t…

I dont't know if that's a real Steinbeck quote (I've seen it attributed to him) but there are much better authentic quotes by Vonnegut, who was himself a Socialist, and along the same lines:

>America is the wealthiest nation on Earth, but its people are mainly poor, and poor Americans are urged to hate themselves.... It is in fact a crime for an American to be poor, even though America is a nation of poor. Every other nation has folk traditions of men who were poor but extremely wise and virtuous, and therefore more estimable than anyone with power and gold. No such tales are told by American poor. They mock themselves and glorify their betters.

But my sibling commenter is right - this kind of post won't go down well on HN, given its nature and near-dogmatic faith in (neo)liberal ideology. For what it's worth, I upvoted you, though.

Re: How Silicon Valley Fuels an Informal Caste System

#24

Post by AnimalMuppet » Tue, Jul 10, 2018, 4:18 PM UTC

extralego wrote: post #11

sokoloff wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's perfectly possible to care about an issue supported by taxation and still be opposed to higher general taxation. I'm very much pro-UBI, yet anti government waste. Too much of government acts, or at least appears to act, as little fiefdoms, employing people with relatively comfortable salaries, no market pressure, and little other controls to ensure they run tightly, efficiently, and effectively. If you want to r…

Your views exemplify selfish priorities and an uncaring worldview. If you care about others, let it be reflected in your behavior and people (like me) will stop doubting you. Is your issue with government in the abstract or your government? If the latter, the caring solution is to change the government through voting, vocalizing and organizing. Governments are instituted to maintain a level of civility in a society.…

I won't speak for sokoloff. But for myself, my issue with government is that I see, in concrete specifics, exactly what sokoloff said: Waste and inefficiency.

And if you claim to care about poverty, maybe you should care about the efficiency of the programs that are supposed to be helping poverty. Maybe you ought to care whether they really do some good, or whether they just employ a lot of middle-class bureaucrats. Note that it's not the middle-class bureaucrats that we're really trying to help.

So for all your ripping sokoloff for his/her alleged lack of compassion, you seem to have your head in the sand. You act like government programs actually do what they say on the label - as if passing a program to help people actually helps them.

Some of those program probably do some good. But they could do more. If you actually care about the poor (instead of just claiming you do), you have to care about the efficiency of programs that are supposed to help them.

Re: How Silicon Valley Fuels an Informal Caste System

#25

Post by eucitizen2x » Tue, Jul 10, 2018, 5:27 PM UTC

claudiawerner wrote: post #22

tdevito wrote: post #16

I used to be an Instacart Shopper and I'm currently taking a web development bootcamp in Manhattan and now I'm on track to make more money than my parents ever did, which is a win in my book. I will do everything I can to make it the next step to the "Inner Party", but what if I don't? Does that mean I "lost at life" if I only end up Upper Middle Class? This author is trying to push a neo-marxist victim ideology onto…

>This author is trying to push a neo-marxist victim ideology I'm curious as to which neo-Marxists you're referring to; I'm familiar with the Frankfurt School and Zizek, though I'm not aware of anyone (either Marx or "neo-Marxists" in academia) who propose a "victim ideology". "Neo-Marxist" and "postmodernist" are frequently used as boogeymen, however.

It’s a right wing dogwhistle without any notion of nuance.

Re: How Silicon Valley Fuels an Informal Caste System

#26

Post by germinalphrase » Tue, Jul 10, 2018, 5:34 PM UTC

mathgladiator wrote: post #12

extralego wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your views exemplify selfish priorities and an uncaring worldview. If you care about others, let it be reflected in your behavior and people (like me) will stop doubting you. Is your issue with government in the abstract or your government? If the latter, the caring solution is to change the government through voting, vocalizing and organizing. Governments are instituted to maintain a level of civility in a society.…

Are we going to play empathy Olympics? The problem is that you can't decouple commodity needs from the market because life is suffering.

I’m having trouble parsing this sentence. Is this a moral argument about the value of suffering? That suffering is inevitable so lack of access the market can/should be ignored?

Re: How Silicon Valley Fuels an Informal Caste System

#27

Post by toasterlovin » Tue, Jul 10, 2018, 5:38 PM UTC

thedevilslawyer wrote: post #4

"Socialism never took root in America because the poor see themselves not as an exploited proletariat but as temporarily embarrassed millionaires." - John Steinbeck Are you temporarily embarrassed? You may not realise it, but you could be a temporarily embarrassed millionaire. Do you plan to someday in the future have more money? Are you concerned that your taxes are too high, because someday you might pay too much t…

A. Using a quote by a writer who has been dead for 50 years to inform your view on people's attitudes is probably not going to serve you well.

B. Also, I noticed that you spell check as 'cheque'. Thank you for condescending to us poor American rubes, we always appreciate it!

Re: How Silicon Valley Fuels an Informal Caste System

#28

Post by claudiawerner » Tue, Jul 10, 2018, 5:42 PM UTC

eucitizen2x wrote: post #25

claudiawerner wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>This author is trying to push a neo-marxist victim ideology I'm curious as to which neo-Marxists you're referring to; I'm familiar with the Frankfurt School and Zizek, though I'm not aware of anyone (either Marx or "neo-Marxists" in academia) who propose a "victim ideology". "Neo-Marxist" and "postmodernist" are frequently used as boogeymen, however.

It’s a right wing dogwhistle without any notion of nuance.

Ah, I thought as much :-)

Re: How Silicon Valley Fuels an Informal Caste System

#29

Post by IOT_Apprentice » Tue, Jul 10, 2018, 6:14 PM UTC

tdevito wrote: post #16

I used to be an Instacart Shopper and I'm currently taking a web development bootcamp in Manhattan and now I'm on track to make more money than my parents ever did, which is a win in my book. I will do everything I can to make it the next step to the "Inner Party", but what if I don't? Does that mean I "lost at life" if I only end up Upper Middle Class? This author is trying to push a neo-marxist victim ideology onto…

You are in a bootcamp. So you don't yet have a job as a web developer. You may have hopes that you will make more money, but that hasn't happened yet.

Re: How Silicon Valley Fuels an Informal Caste System

#30

Post by IOT_Apprentice » Tue, Jul 10, 2018, 6:20 PM UTC

1986 wrote: post #6

timavr wrote: post #2

It is really weird if we talk about issues from Marxist class struggle framework. Homelessness exist because rich don’t care, which is an empty argument. The better argument is that we don’t have systems in place to deal with the problem. Let’s build them.

Such systems cost money, generally collected through taxation. At least in the US, the rich have largely demonstrated that they would rather direct money towards lobbying against a rise in taxation on them, than to the taxes that would fund such a system. So at its core, "the rich don't care" isn't an empty argument, but rather an accurate assessment of one of the root causes.

Look at San Francisco and it's homeless population, coupled with the insane housing costs. And the continued idiocy of locating startups in the city. see https://nypost.com/2018/07/08/san-franciscos-crisis-looks-li...